What does it take in your city to feel "wealthy"

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pj3000

You used to be able to get a good pint on draught in Pittsburgh at a decent bar for 3 bucks… now it’s tough to find the same for 6 bucks, even at a shitty bar.

Yeah, for anything non-macro in Chicago you're typically looking at 7 - 10 bucks a pint. Fuck you!

And downtown, they aren't shy at all about aiming even higher.

I'm old.

And broke.

I drink at home.

[SIGSEGV]

Low-cost places also have stupidly large portion sizes. Like New Orleans... the food is cheap, and enough to feed 3...

[dimondpark]

3.8M? okay I guess.

[SIGSEGV]

I don't regularly drink or drive, so I'm not familiar with the cost of booze or gas. But coffee... man is that more expensive here than in low-cost areas (but good luck finding something drinkable there...)

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, groceries here in NYC are far more expensive than they are in Michigan. I should get a cooler the next time I decide to drive out there, lol.

If anything, essential foods are the same or cheaper in NYC. Produce and the like are definitely cheaper.

Prices for certain stores in Manhattan/Brownstone Brooklyn are way more expensive than say Meijer in Michigan, but that isn't remotely apples-apples. The typical ethnic produce/meat stores (aka how most NYers shop for food) are cheap. Citarella and Butterfield Market, obviously no. But stores like 3 Guys from Brooklyn, or any ethnic grocery, are ridiculously cheap.

Visit 8th Ave. in Brooklyn Sunset Park, and do a price check on basics with a big box store in MI. I bet you the Sunset Park prices beat WalMart/Meijer the vast majority of the time. But if you want to get ripped off eating an emu egg omelet, Manhattan awaits.

I've also found CA to be really cheap for basic foodstuffs, especially produce. Again, in ethnic areas, not the $15 camel milk at Malibu Whole Foods.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I've also found CA to be really cheap for basic foodstuffs, especially produce. Again, in ethnic areas, not the $15 camel milk at Malibu Whole Foods.

Given that CA grows much of the nation's produce (other than grains), it shouldn't surprise anyone that that particular part of the diet is better (fresher, higher quality) and cheaper. The state also produces a lot of meat though that's mostly of the artisanal, "heritage", up-market variety.

I shop at Whole Foods a lot lately--in Pacific Heights, not Malibu--because of covid (they are very rigorous about mask requirements and distancing and so on, and the educated, affluent customers are among the city's most likely to be vaccinated) and I haven't found the camel milk.

[SIGSEGV]

Anybody else familiar with Pedrick Produce in Dixon, CA? That place is the best...

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

You can also be in a situation where you FEEL differently about what you have OR what you make.

I'm currently "comfortable" in a "we will have enough to survive" existential kind a sense, but I'm very "uncomfortable" in a day-to-day cash-flow sense.

So I think that crawford's point about bringing up income to go along with net worth is a good one. Unless you're already retired, both matter a good deal to the financial comfort, or lack thereof, of the typical American family.

To me, being "comfortable" means that when the car water pump blows or the home central A/C unit conks out in the middle of a heat wave, you don't have to lose sleep figuring out how to get it fixed or replaced. You can just call the repairman and write a check and get a good night's sleep.

In most situations, that means having some kind of bank balance as well as a decent income. I can remember living paycheck to paycheck and even if the paychecks were sizable, if they didn't allow for the accumulation of that bank balance, I would never feel "comfortable".

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Anybody else familiar with Pedrick Produce in Dixon, CA? That place is the best...

I had to look up Dixon, CA even though it turns out it's in Solano County which is considered part of the Bay Area. Since it's in the Central Valley I would expect them to have good produce but I have to say when I think of really good stuff two things come to mind: Strawberries from Watsonville and cantaloupe from the Colorado River Valley around Needles. I don't buy either fruit until the domestic ones come to market--so much better than the Mexican imports, probably because they are picked fully ripe (at least when they are for sale within the state).

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I had to look up Dixon, CA even though it turns out it's in Solano County which is considered part of the Bay Area. Since it's in the Central Valley I would expect them to have good produce but I have to say when I think of really good stuff two things come to mind: Strawberries from Watsonville and cantaloupe from the Colorado River Valley around Needles. I don't buy either fruit until the domestic ones come to market--so much better than the Mexican imports, probably because they are picked fully ripe (at least when they are for sale within the state).

Dixon is like the no man's land between the Bay Area (Vacaville) and the Sacramento area (Davis).
I imagine that not too long ago Vacaville was more like Dixon...

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I thought Southwest Florida was a vast and mainly uninhabited wetlands known as the Everglades?

And including Denver over Philly is a definite head-scratcher considering metro Philly is roughly 2x larger.

It is until you get to Naples which is where wealthy Midwestern people go to retire.
It's a pretty town but it just gave me very creepy "Truman Show" vibes.

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[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Yeah, for anything non-macro in Chicago you're typically looking at 7 - 10 bucks a pint. Fuck you!

And downtown, they aren't shy at all about aiming even higher.

I'm old.

And broke.

I drink at home.

I hear you... same here, the $7 pint seems to be the norm now... with prices in certain neighborhoods at "fancier" bars hitting $8-9

Totally ridiculous... in Pittsburgh! of all places

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

It is until you get to Naples which is where wealthy Midwestern people go to retire.
It's a pretty town but it just gave me very creepy "Truman Show" vibes.

yeah I agree

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by craigs

I moved out of San Francisco to a vacation house in far northern California to ride out COVID, and have found basic grocery bills are half of what they were in SF for comparable items. Restaurants are far cheaper. Gas is crazy cheap. Goods at places like Costco are comparable, and when I'm on road trips I've found fast food (the only time I eat it) to be same just about everywhere.

I'll be moving to Southern California in three weeks and will be interested to compare basic costs.

we have some friends who did this but to a vacation type house in the san bernardino mountains after leaving LA. now they are looking at the inland northwest having become accustomed to cheap(er) living and working from anywhere

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

If anything, essential foods are the same or cheaper in NYC. Produce and the like are definitely cheaper.

Prices for certain stores in Manhattan/Brownstone Brooklyn are way more expensive than say Meijer in Michigan, but that isn't remotely apples-apples. The typical ethnic produce/meat stores (aka how most NYers shop for food) are cheap. Citarella and Butterfield Market, obviously no. But stores like 3 Guys from Brooklyn, or any ethnic grocery, are ridiculously cheap.

Visit 8th Ave. in Brooklyn Sunset Park, and do a price check on basics with a big box store in MI. I bet you the Sunset Park prices beat WalMart/Meijer the vast majority of the time. But if you want to get ripped off eating an emu egg omelet, Manhattan awaits.

I've also found CA to be really cheap for basic foodstuffs, especially produce. Again, in ethnic areas, not the $15 camel milk at Malibu Whole Foods.

I've actually cross referenced prices with relatives back in MI before. The typical grocery stores in NYC are definitely more expensive than typical grocery stores in MI. But as was pointed out before, it's probably an economy of scale thing. For instance, you can buy a carton of eggs at Target in Atlantic Terminal for $1.39, but the cheapest eggs at the Stop & Shop, also at Atlantic Terminal, is $1.69.

I'm sure that ethnic stores are cheaper, which makes sense, but I don't think that's how most people shop. Just like most people in MI don't shop at the Eastern Market.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

In most situations, that means having some kind of bank balance as well as a decent income.

which is why the charts in the first post of this thread focusing exclusively on net worth really don't tell the whole story for non-retired people.

we're allegedly "financially comfortable" in chicago according to those net worth charts, but our income is so sporadic and irregular these days, that it sure as hell doesn't FEEL comfortable at all on a day-to-day basis.

i sorely miss the security of a dependable paycheck every two weeks and employer-provided health insurance. maybe someday.......

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Dixon is like the no man's land between the Bay Area (Vacaville) and the Sacramento area (Davis).
I imagine that not too long ago Vacaville was more like Dixon...

Lambtown, baby! I get sunflower seeds there every few months @ Pedrick Produce.
Oh an Dixon counts as bay area....haha.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by TWAK

Lambtown, baby! I get sunflower seeds there every few months @ Pedrick Produce.
Oh an Dixon counts as bay area....haha.

Yeah, Dixon might as well be on another planet. I used to stop at Pedrick nearly every time I drove between my parent's house and undergrad to stash up on pistachios.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Anybody else familiar with Pedrick Produce in Dixon, CA? That place is the best...

along that drive on at stretch of the 80, there are a few produce stands visible from the freeway...there's one along the westbound side around Dixon that I think we've stopped at a few times. Is that the one youre talking about?

The produce market next to SFO airport is also **really** good for valley fruits and veggies and things from all over the world, as well the produce district in downtown Oakland.

Also, the chinatowns are good as well.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

along that drive on at stretch of the 80, there are a few produce stands visible from the freeway...there's one along the westbound side around Dixon that I think we've stopped at a few times. Is that the one youre talking about?

yep, that's it! there's also Yolo Fruit Stand on the Eastbound side just East of Davis which is the other one I can think of.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by craigs

I moved out of San Francisco to a vacation house in far northern California to ride out COVID, and have found basic grocery bills are half of what they were in SF for comparable items. Restaurants are far cheaper. Gas is crazy cheap. Goods at places like Costco are comparable, and when I'm on road trips I've found fast food (the only time I eat it) to be same just about everywhere.

I'll be moving to Southern California in three weeks and will be interested to compare basic costs.

Got to contradict you on 2 counts: In the lower Colorado River Valley, which is also rural CA, gas goes up by around $1/gallon instantly when you cross the river from AZ (but yeah, it's still cheaper than in SF). That's why, when I drive between SF and Tucson, I gas up in Parker, AZ on the east side of the river. It's not so much about being rural as in being somewhere that mandates a blend of gas only produced within the state of CA so that fuel produced anywhere else in the country can't be used.

As for fast food, a large drink that costs $1 in Tucson at McD's costs around $3.50 in San Francisco. There may be less difference for the burgers and such--I generally don't eat that kind of stuff. But SF mandates high wages, health insurance, paid time off for various reasons and other things that raise unit labor costs tremendously. If the fast food prices are not much higher in the city, it's no wonder so many of the fast food places are just giving up and shutting down.