PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Arch+Eng]

Guys let's please not get back on this subject. We just talked about it a week or two ago. We answered his question. Lets move on.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Future Aloft hotel exterior work.

[Leviathant]

Originally Posted by 1487

I saw the plywood going up on the old industrial building on 9th street, I was wondering what is going on in there. It would be great if that was really being turned into something useful.

I used to walk past this building every day - there had been plywood there before, but what's really interesting in this shot is that the windows are being removed. The only thing I've seen going in or out of this building have been communications workers - there are a lot of antennas at the roof of that building.

Despite its proximity to the regional rail line, it seems like a no-brainer for reuse as an apartment building.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by 1487

I don't see that happening anytime soon. especially when there is so much vacancy between this area and Spring Garden Street.

The area between the Allen Hole and Spring Garden St. (East Poplar, Spring Arts, whatever) has seen a marked uptick in development the past several years. That said, there's still plenty of vacancies to fill in before redevelopment pressure hits the edge of the PHA properties.

The other issue is that these are early '90s wood-frame houses, i.e. structures nearing the end of their life cycle. Significant redevelopment pressure in every direction would almost by default result in increased density on the site.

[Leviathant]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

The other issue is that these are early '90s wood-frame houses, i.e. structures nearing the end of their life cycle. Significant redevelopment pressure in every direction would almost by default result in increased density on the site.

You're insane, or just don't understand what it is you're talking about.

The house I just sold at 12th and Poplar, built in 1997, is in fantastic shape, and has decades and decades of life left to go. What's more, at least in the Nehemiah development, these are owner-occupied by families, and have in some cases already been passed down a generation. Some have taken out second mortgages on them and made improvements, others simply have paid off the property completely. You talk of redevelopment pressure as though the people living here are renting from developers and property managers. The only pressure I had to move out was that I found a pretty unique opportunity on the waterfront near old city & northern liberties.

I can't speak for the PHA rentals, but as we talked about earlier in this thread, but regarding the single family owner-occupied twins in West Poplar, if you're typing out things like "Significant redevelopment pressure in every direction would almost by default result in increased density on the site" you must like writing more than you like reading, because it appears as though you're not paying attention.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by Leviathant

You're insane, or just don't understand what it is you're talking about.

The house I just sold at 12th and Poplar, built in 1997, is in fantastic shape, and has decades and decades of life left to go. What's more, at least in the Nehemiah development, these are owner-occupied by families, and have in some cases already been passed down a generation. Some have taken out second mortgages on them and made improvements, others simply have paid off the property completely. You talk of redevelopment pressure as though the people living here are renting from developers and property managers. The only pressure I had to move out was that I found a pretty unique opportunity on the waterfront near old city & northern liberties.

I can't speak for the PHA rentals, but as we talked about earlier in this thread, but regarding the single family owner-occupied twins in West Poplar, if you're typing out things like "Significant redevelopment pressure in every direction would almost by default result in increased density on the site" you must like writing more than you like reading, because it appears as though you're not paying attention.

Give it 20 years and alot of them will begin to torn down and rebuilt... unless there's some sort of HOA that prohibits that

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Leviathant

You're insane, or just don't understand what it is you're talking about.

The house I just sold at 12th and Poplar, built in 1997, is in fantastic shape, and has decades and decades of life left to go. What's more, at least in the Nehemiah development, these are owner-occupied by families, and have in some cases already been passed down a generation. Some have taken out second mortgages on them and made improvements, others simply have paid off the property completely. You talk of redevelopment pressure as though the people living here are renting from developers and property managers. The only pressure I had to move out was that I found a pretty unique opportunity on the waterfront near old city & northern liberties.

I can't speak for the PHA rentals, but as we talked about earlier in this thread, but regarding the single family owner-occupied twins in West Poplar, if you're typing out things like "Significant redevelopment pressure in every direction would almost by default result in increased density on the site" you must like writing more than you like reading, because it appears as though you're not paying attention.

The homes may be in fantastic shape and owner-occupied, but as demand in the area increases developers will start offering the residents prices that will be hard to refuse. Many will choose to take the money and move. "Significant redevelopment pressure... would almost by default result in increased density..." is not inaccurate. Supply and demand dictates that it will most certainly happen. The only question is how long it will take.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Leviathant

You're insane, or just don't understand what it is you're talking about.

Not the way to start a conversation.

[summersm343]

The State of University City 2016 Report



Now available. Article from PhillyMag:
http://www.phillymag.com/citified/20...y-city-rising/

And link to the report directly:
http://www.universitycity.org/sites/...y%202016_0.pdf

Pretty much information we all already know on here: University City is booming and is an economic powerhouse for the region.

The most interesting section to us is likely the Development section. There are nice tidbits in there about a lot of developments happening in UCity and the surrounding neighborhoods:

Korman Center Improvements
This renovation will include an expansion and modernization of
the Korman Center, including a new two-story, glass-enclosed
“solarium” overlooking the reimagined Korman Quadrangle
featuring new walkways, landscaping and seating.
Developer: Drexel University
Location: Between Market & Chestnut streets
and between 32nd & 33rd streets
Size: 1,000 square feet
Completion Date: Fall 2017

Raymond G. Perelman Center for Jewish Life
The first facility at Drexel dedicated to Jewish student life, the
preliminary design calls for an event space, chapel, meeting
rooms, student lounges, offices for Drexel Hillel, a kosher
kitchen and a large outdoor patio.
Developer: Drexel University
Location: 118 N. 34th Street
Size: 14,000 square feet
Completion Date: Fall 2016

3.0 University Place
A new five-story office building, 3.0 University Place will be
the first LEED Version 4 Platinum new construction project
in the world.
Developer: University Place Associates, LLC
Location: 41st & Market streets
Size: 183,195 square feet
Completion Date: Fall 2017

4614-18 Woodland Avenue
This new three-story commercial building will feature both intensive
and extensive green roofs where water gathered from
rainfall will be collected and stored as grey-water to be reused
in toilets to reduce water consumption.
Developer: 4614 Woodland Partners LP
Location: 4614-18 Woodland Avenue
Size: 15,000 square feet
Completion Date: Spring 2016

43rd & Sansom
This mixed-use space is a four-story apartment building with
two ground floor commercial spaces.
Developer: Apartments at Penn
Location: 43rd & Sansom streets
Size: 35,000 square feet
Completion Date: February 2016

4619 Woodland
4619 Woodland is a 17-unit new construction luxury apartment
building featuring a large ground-floor commercial space.
Developer: HOW Properties
Location: 4619 Woodland Avenue
Size: 27,660 square feet
Completion Date: August 2015

Lastly, and most notable in the report is the "Campus Commerce Center," which seems to be a 10 story office building at 41st and Walnut which will be partially occupied by Campus Crest Communities.



A ton of great info, images and renderings in the report. I suggest you guys check it out.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Leviathant

You're insane, or just don't understand what it is you're talking about.

The house I just sold at 12th and Poplar, built in 1997, is in fantastic shape, and has decades and decades of life left to go. What's more, at least in the Nehemiah development, these are owner-occupied by families, and have in some cases already been passed down a generation. Some have taken out second mortgages on them and made improvements, others simply have paid off the property completely. You talk of redevelopment pressure as though the people living here are renting from developers and property managers. The only pressure I had to move out was that I found a pretty unique opportunity on the waterfront near old city & northern liberties.

I can't speak for the PHA rentals, but as we talked about earlier in this thread, but regarding the single family owner-occupied twins in West Poplar, if you're typing out things like "Significant redevelopment pressure in every direction would almost by default result in increased density on the site" you must like writing more than you like reading, because it appears as though you're not paying attention.

You're clearly a sales guy who doesn't pay attention to the science-y side of things.

Modern woodframe construction is designed to have a 20-year lifecycle. In other words, the materials used in construction start breaking down and needing replacement after 20 years have passed. This always struck me as being a little bit strange, seeing how mortgages are 30 years, but I've heard enough horror stories to know that most post-1980 woodframe structures are not all that well built.

I feel sorry for the poor sap you sold that 18-year-old wooden house to.

[Arch+Eng]

Originally Posted by Leviathant

You're insane, or just don't understand what it is you're talking about.

The house I just sold at 12th and Poplar, built in 1997, is in fantastic shape, and has decades and decades of life left to go. What's more, at least in the Nehemiah development, these are owner-occupied by families, and have in some cases already been passed down a generation. Some have taken out second mortgages on them and made improvements, others simply have paid off the property completely. You talk of redevelopment pressure as though the people living here are renting from developers and property managers. The only pressure I had to move out was that I found a pretty unique opportunity on the waterfront near old city & northern liberties.

I can't speak for the PHA rentals, but as we talked about earlier in this thread, but regarding the single family owner-occupied twins in West Poplar, if you're typing out things like "Significant redevelopment pressure in every direction would almost by default result in increased density on the site" you must like writing more than you like reading, because it appears as though you're not paying attention.

I live in a 100 Year old Wooden house...You have to remember people here will argue and make sense out of anything that means more development. Even demolishing 20 year old homes.

Now developers might buy out residents, I wish I owned one of those houses if they did, I would be that one resident in the middle of a block that wants 20 million for my house lol.

[Leviathant]

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

I live in a 100 Year old Wooden house...You have to remember people here will argue and make sense out of anything that means more development. Even demolishing 20 year old homes.

I've got a degree in engineering (and loathe sales & marketing), currently renovating a theater & building an apartment above it, but I have some dude on the internet telling me I'm falling for sales jargon, because he's been told all modern wooden houses are designed to be torn down after 20 years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not expecting the house to last 11,000 years like some kind of Shigir idol, but having lived in a variety of houses over the last few decades, of varying vintage, the house we had in Nehemiah was the newest house we'd lived in. The design of the structure isn't clever, and it's not terribly exciting, but it's well engineered. The materials weren't luxurious, but they are sturdy.

Nonetheless, I do have to remind myself... this is skyscraperpage.com. Single family housing isn't something worth discussing here, and it was my mistake to wade back into that pool - sorry for going off topic, it's hard to resist the desire to chip in when folks are talking about where I lived for the last six years, and they get the details wrong.

It's been exciting watching this city refresh itself over the past decade I've been here, and I'm glad there's a community dedicated to talking about it. Carry on

[jsbrook]

I don't really have a dog in this fight but haven't been able to locate any literature that says modern wood-framed homes are designed to fall apart after 20 years...if that's true, seems to me that we have a lot of $1 million plus (often $2 million plus) townhomes going up that will be falling apart before too long.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by Leviathant

Nonetheless, I do have to remind myself... this is skyscraperpage.com. Single family housing isn't something worth discussing here,

I think you are partly missing the point, and maybe deliberately, though I don't know why.

The general sentiment being expressed here is not that single family housing is inherently bad, but that publicly subsidized housing projects in lower North Philly up until the last 10 years or so have tended to be very suburban in character and very wasteful of inner city land with large lawns, driveways, and open space between the houses.

That might be right for places further from the regional core, but when you are within blocks of every form of public transit and a mile+/- or City Hall it is just poor planning and very inappropriate.

Additionally, one of the ways to prevent crime is through increased density and street activity. These nightmarishly badly designed 90s public housing developments do exactly the opposite. The streets north of Spring Garden east of Broad are basically empty and frankly a little forbidding. There's virtually no reason to go there unless you live in one of those islolated bungalows.

It's just bad - no, lack of - urban design, and that's very obvious to almost everyone who cares.

Given all that wasted space, and given that surrounding areas are rapidly developing with much more density, it stands to reason that eventually there will be rich economic incentives for owners to sell their underutilized property to developers interested in building much denser housing that is much better suited to that location. And many owners will sell under such circumstances, and that will be very good.

This is very easy to understand, and I think you, being an engineer, actually do, but you just have a bone to pick for some reason.

No need to be a rebel. Those houses are ugly and it will be nice when they are gone and replaced by something that actually helps mend the urban fabric that has long been in tatters in eastern lower North Philly. It is truly one of the ugliest neighborhoods around Center City.

[Knight Hospitaller]

I'm not an engineer or architect, but it wouldn't surprise me if PHA-built stuff fell down after 20 years. I've seen some real crap in the suburbs that for which people pay good money.

[1487]

when will people stop wasting time beating this dead horse? those houses arent going anywhere for DECADES and they are hardly the biggest issue faced by Philadelphia in terms of development, land use or neighborhood quality. They aren't going to be bulldozed, get over it.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by 1487

when will people stop wasting time beating this dead horse? those houses arent going anywhere for DECADES and they are hardly the biggest issue faced by Philadelphia in terms of development, land use or neighborhood quality. They aren't going to be bulldozed, get over it.

I can dream, can't I?

[Arch+Eng]

Originally Posted by Leviathant

I've got a degree in engineering (and loathe sales & marketing), currently renovating a theater & building an apartment above it, but I have some dude on the internet telling me I'm falling for sales jargon, because he's been told all modern wooden houses are designed to be torn down after 20 years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not expecting the house to last 11,000 years like some kind of Shigir idol, but having lived in a variety of houses over the last few decades, of varying vintage, the house we had in Nehemiah was the newest house we'd lived in. The design of the structure isn't clever, and it's not terribly exciting, but it's well engineered. The materials weren't luxurious, but they are sturdy.

Nonetheless, I do have to remind myself... this is skyscraperpage.com. Single family housing isn't something worth discussing here, and it was my mistake to wade back into that pool - sorry for going off topic, it's hard to resist the desire to chip in when folks are talking about where I lived for the last six years, and they get the details wrong.

It's been exciting watching this city refresh itself over the past decade I've been here, and I'm glad there's a community dedicated to talking about it. Carry on

Hey a fellow Engineer. I too have a degree in Engineering. I am not sure if people here are just development enthusiasts (with no knowledge on construction) or architects.....who usually still have no knowledge of construction.

Engineers pick on architects all the time.

[blorkishdork]

That makes three engineers!

I'm assuming we are all structural?

[Leviathant]

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

Hey a fellow Engineer. I too have a degree in Engineering. I am not sure if people here are just development enthusiasts (with no knowledge on construction) or architects.....who usually still have no knowledge of construction.

Engineers pick on architects all the time.

Heh. It's been really enlightening working on the wee little three story building I'm doing - seeing the detail the architects have gone through, and then bringing in the teams of structural engineers, and now the builders, and the points of view each bring to the table.

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

These nightmarishly badly designed 90s public housing developments do exactly the opposite.

This is why I feel the need to reply, because people say things that they can't back up.

The majority of the crime in that area is actually taking place in the higher-density PHA housing. Where all the private owned low density housing is, the most crime we had for years was recovery of stolen vehicles. Then one day about four years ago, cops chased a car into one of the cul-de-sacs, and they stopped recovering stolen vehicles near us.

The biggest problem we had was with homeless addicts hanging out in the park, which had admittedly been neglected. I'd help clean it up two or three times a month, but didn't dedicate more time to it. One of the newer neighbors, who looks out his front door into the park, took it upon himself to cut back the bushes, nag the homeless shelter, and start holding community events in the park. Last year, because of his efforts, where I used to pick up beer cans and smack baggies, I was picking up mostly candy wrappers. It's actually a really pleasant neighborhood.

We would get packages left on our porch - never had one stolen in six years. I regularly left my car unlocked, or left our front and back doors open during the nicer weather. The neighbors look out for each other, and all know each other's names. There was one family, which I refer to as the cursing toddler family, who communicate by yelling at each other, and in that way they're a bit of a nuisance. But as far as violent crime goes? Not in Nehemiah.

I work in old city, and walked to work, covering pretty much the whole grid between 12th & Poplar and 2nd & Market, morning and evening. And sometimes late at night. Yeah, at first, it seemed forbidding. One time, a young man on the other side of the street even called me a cracker while speaking loudly to his friend. Oh no! I survived. But no one's ever bothered me, and in fact, I took to greeting everyone I walked past in the morning with "Good morning," and it was amazing to see people's stern faces melt away into a friendly reply. (The catcalling my wife got walking down Broad Street is another matter, and a larger problem in the city in general.)

None of that has anything to do with the notion that these houses built in 1997 are at the end of their life cycle. I don't think I'm being inflammatory when I say that's a statement made out of actual ignorance about the construction of those structures.