Duff's Corners poised for new commercial development

[raisethehammer]

just so we don't think that only Hamilton is full of this sort of crap. Check out this thread from Ottawa:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=141987

mind you, we all live near the GTA. hop in your car, close your eyes and head into Halton/Peel/York/Durham regions. Whenever you choose to stop, there's a good chance you'll be staring at a smiling penguin!

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

just so we don't think that only Hamilton is full of this sort of crap. Check out this thread from Ottawa:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=141987

Oh God. Ottawa Train Yards? Steamline Street and Trainyards Drive?
The memory of the great railroads lives on.
They did this in the west Toronto stockyards, but they didn't rub salt in the wounds with those ass-stupid street names.
I try not to make pointless rants on here but this is too much.
Thanks alot man, I have to puke.
Good night.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Browsing through those proposals you can see that the arrival of Lowe's in this market is stimulating even more development. Don't throw stones at me--but I'd expect to see the same thing locally. Lowe's likes to match HD location-for-location--so at the very least I'd expect to see them in Ancaster and Burlington in the near future.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Browsing through those proposals you can see that the arrival of Lowe's in this market is stimulating even more development. Don't throw stones at me--but I'd expect to see the same thing locally. Lowe's likes to match HD location-for-location--so at the very least I'd expect to see them in Ancaster and Burlington in the near future.

How do you figure??
I could just as easily assume that Dollarama is responsible for all the power centre construction. It's like the same dozen retailers that show up in every single one.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

How do you figure??
I could just as easily assume that Dollarama is responsible for all the power centre construction. It's like the same dozen retailers that show up in every single one.

That's exactly it.
Remember Flar's "Everywhere, Ontario" photo-thread? Every big box lot had the exact same stores: wal mart, dollarama, subway & bestbuy/future shop. No matter where you are. Infact, the "new" big box developments in Owen Sound are exactly the same: Wal Mart, Cdn Tire, Dollarama... I just never realized just HOW asymmetrical they all are whether you're in the GTA or middle-of-nowhere-Ontario! Scary!

Those Ottawa ones are brutal :s Makes me (almost) want to praise EllisDon/Redcliffe for the current Centre Mall plans.

[raisethehammer]

dollar stores...that's another hilarious bit out of the burbs that I chuckle at.
People say "why would I go downtown...there's dollar stores on King St!!"

Yea, as opposed to every single plaza and big box store in your suburban area.

[markbarbera]

It is stimulating the wrong kind of development. These suburban commercial sprawl complexes are being dropped in areas that require new servicing, leave a large, wasteful footprint, and are completely contrary to initiatives like Hamilton's "GRIDS" and Ontario's "Places to Grow". Their development should be more than discouraged.

Now, the usual suspects are bound to claim that big box complexes like Duffs Corners are what the customers want. It would be more accurate to say that's what they are willing to tolerate. Of my circle of friends, about half visit meadowlands regularly. They like the shopping experience within stores like Costco, but they all complain about the amount of driving required, not only to get out there, but to move around from shop to shop. Their shopping needs are being met, but the overall experience is less than pleasant.

The new development trend coming down the pipe is best demonstrated with the redevelopment plans for the sprawl surrounding Oakville GO Station. Plans call to redevelop the station and surrounding retail to eliminate the sprawling parking lots and intensify the building density with a mixed-use commercial and retail, with a multi-modal public transit hub as the central feature of the project. In short, new developments will (and should) be putting the 'smart' into these smart centres. It's too bad developers like RioCan and SmartCentres are clinging to a format approaching the trending down-curve rather than pioneering the format on the up-swing.

[raisethehammer]

RioCan and SmartCentres are doing business just like the cheap energy-dependent businesses in the world - extract every red cent possible until the bottom falls out and then run for the hills. Someone else can clean up the mess.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

dollar stores...that's another hilarious bit out of the burbs that I chuckle at.
People say "why would I go downtown...there's dollar stores on King St!!"

Yea, as opposed to every single plaza and big box store in your suburban area.

Silly suburbanite creatures.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

It is stimulating the wrong kind of development. These suburban commercial sprawl complexes are being dropped in areas that require new servicing, leave a large, wasteful footprint, and are completely contrary to initiatives like Hamilton's "GRIDS" and Ontario's "Places to Grow". Their development should be more than discouraged.

Now, the usual suspects are bound to claim that big box complexes like Duffs Corners are what the customers want. It would be more accurate to say that's what they are willing to tolerate. Of my circle of friends, about half visit meadowlands regularly. They like the shopping experience within stores like Costco, but they all complain about the amount of driving required, not only to get out there, but to move around from shop to shop. Their shopping needs are being met, but the overall experience is less than pleasant.

The new development trend coming down the pipe is best demonstrated with the redevelopment plans for the sprawl surrounding Oakville GO Station. Plans call to redevelop the station and surrounding retail to eliminate the sprawling parking lots and intensify the building density with a mixed-use commercial and retail, with a multi-modal public transit hub as the central feature of the project. In short, new developments will (and should) be putting the 'smart' into these smart centres. It's too bad developers like RioCan and SmartCentres are clinging to a format approaching the trending down-curve rather than pioneering the format on the up-swing.

I miss malls.

[fastcarsfreedom]

A new entrant in the market drives construction--that's all I said. Personally I hate dollar stores--can't stand them--don't patronize them--not in the city--not in the suburbs. There's no tit-for-tat game going on on my part--there are crappy stores in all parts of the city.

Retail is evolutionary--there are trends firing off in many different directions--predicting what is trending up vs. trending down isn't an exact science. Merchandising is a lost art--that much I know.

[HAMRetrofit]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I miss malls.

good one

As usual nothing intelligent to add to the discussion. Perhaps you're just not capable.

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I hope an SUV takes out those penguins!

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

A new entrant in the market drives construction--that's all I said. Personally I hate dollar stores--can't stand them--don't patronize them--not in the city--not in the suburbs. There's no tit-for-tat game going on on my part--there are crappy stores in all parts of the city.

Retail is evolutionary--there are trends firing off in many different directions--predicting what is trending up vs. trending down isn't an exact science. Merchandising is a lost art--that much I know.

bang on.
the other thing I get a kick out of is when these companies say "we're giving the customer what they want". When I lived out west, the nearest grocery store was like any Fortinos (although the food quality sucked) - one storey, giant building. huge parking lot. Then they started renovating. 4 floors of apartments on top of the entire grocery store building. A new mixed use condo building on a piece of the parking lot with a few new stores at ground level.
I don't ever remember hearing one customer say "What the heck is this? Don't they know that I want a huge, one story box building? I don't want to shop with apartments above me. I don't want those 3 new stores to shop at in the bottom of the new condo building! I'm never shopping here again!"

Never. Not once.
They build what THEY want. The cheapest, crappiest thing they can pull off. The customer is fairly clueless. They'll shop at whatever's nearby. They aren't going to stop going to a power centre if it gets redeveloped as a mixed-use project. If anything, business will pick up.

[Jon Dalton]

Well in a sense they are providing what the customer wants. They often want only one thing: cheap. That's why people will complain about a new supercentre taking out established smaller shops but end up shopping there anyways. By building cheap buildings on cheap land and leasing to retailers who buy cheap and sell cheap, these big box developers are making cheap goods accessible to the customer. Maybe it's our values that need to change.

[raisethehammer]

$200 a barrel oil would sure help....no more cheap flights from the sweatshops all over the world bringing us our 'cheap' goods.
Despite the damage $200/barrel oil would do to our economy, it would open up a whole new opportunity - manufacturing of goods! Heaven forbid, we start making our own stuff again and supporting the North American economy instead of becoming a continent full of people working and shopping at Walmart.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I miss malls.

Isn't the mall still alive and well in today's retail environment?

I doubt that big boxes pose a serious threat to the mall because you aren't going to cross that parking lot 20 times to go to 20 different stores at a box centre. Neither driving nor walking is convenient.

Big boxes are convenient because of the large multipurpose stores that sell all kinds of things - one stop shopping - then you can go to the bank and pick up a movie on the way out.

The recreational shoppers that I know still love their malls, they'll just go to Wal*Mart for the necessities.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

$200 a barrel oil would sure help....no more cheap flights from the sweatshops all over the world bringing us our 'cheap' goods.
Despite the damage $200/barrel oil would do to our economy, it would open up a whole new opportunity - manufacturing of goods! Heaven forbid, we start making our own stuff again and supporting the North American economy instead of becoming a continent full of people working and shopping at Walmart.

I've heard that oil prices won't neccessarily affect the globalization of retail because it's so damn efficient to ship goods by boat. For a $200 TV made in China something like $5 goes to shipping.

Also, check this out: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=145911 Apparently much of the rail expansion focuses on connecting major ports to major distribution centres.

Could Wal*Mart thrive in a post-oil economy?

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

I've heard that oil prices won't neccessarily affect the globalization of retail because it's so damn efficient to ship goods by boat. For a $200 TV made in China something like $5 goes to shipping.

Also, check this out: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=145911 Apparently much of the rail expansion focuses on connecting major ports to major distribution centres.

Could Wal*Mart thrive in a post-oil economy?

Walmart could thrive if they led a charge to rebuild N.America's rail network. High oil prices WILL affect the price of gasoline. Walmarts entire business model is based around their 'mobile warehouses'. Drive the NY State thruway from here to NYC and count how many Walmart trucks go by. It's amazing. You'll see hundreds of them always traveling in two's. They don't have massive warehouses sitting full of stock, possibly not getting bought. They have a 'just-in-time' delivery system set up ensuring that just as the final item of product 'x' is being bought, the trucks arrive with the next batch. No overstocking.
This system will go up in flames with higher oil prices unless they convert their mobile warehouses to rail. Right now, cheap gas-filled trucks is what gives them that edge over everyone else.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

good one

As usual nothing intelligent to add to the discussion. Perhaps you're just not capable.

I do miss malls. I prefer them over power centres.

Who are you?