CHICAGO | Politics and Current Events

[thegoatman]

Originally Posted by tjp

Another mass shooting in River North; 2 killed 3 wounded. At this point I honestly don't know if I'd advise family to stay downtown over 4th of July weekend, typically one of the most violent of the year. Depressing as hell.

that was south loop. but yes its indeed depressing

[twister244]

Originally Posted by tjp

Another mass shooting in River North; 2 killed 3 wounded. At this point I honestly don't know if I'd advise family to stay downtown over 4th of July weekend, typically one of the most violent of the year. Depressing as hell.

One has to wonder who is getting shot....

I have been going downtown for weeks now to WeWorks, and things feel pretty normal. If you are really concerned, tell your family to stay in the West Loop as I never hear/see any problems there. What was more frustrating was having to wait 30-60 min to wait for a Blue line train outbound yesterday because someone decided to get stabbed at Monroe.

[Steely Dan]

^ the shooting also occurred at 1:45am, hardly a time when most "families" are likely to be walking around the loop.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by tjp

Another mass shooting in River North; 2 killed 3 wounded. At this point I honestly don't know if I'd advise family to stay downtown over 4th of July weekend, typically one of the most violent of the year. Depressing as hell.

If you and your family are the type who carry guns and get into arguments on the street at 2:00AM with other people who are carrying guns, you should probably invite them to go camping or something, yes.

[tjp]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

If you and your family are the type who carry guns and get into arguments on the street at 2:00AM with other people who are carrying guns, you should probably invite them to go camping or something, yes.

That's exactly us!

I don't mean to be dramatic, and I'm not typically someone who rants about crime. It's just very frustrating; whether you're directly involved or not, being in close proximity to a shooting is scary. Plus the number of innocent bystanders isn't so small.

[Tom In Chicago]

I don't go out and about much these days, but I was in River North last Friday night as I had a friend in from out of town staying at a hotel up there - the scene on the street reminded me of what Times Square looked like in the 1975 film Taxi Driver but with the occasional fat white guy walking around with a Cold Stone Creamery cup in his hand. . .

The police generally close a bunch of streets off to through traffic after 10 or 11 and people are openly dealing drugs and smoking weed out on the streets in front of the police without any consideration. . . I say if you're dumb enough to be out after midnight in River North, that's on you. . . but it definitely feels like the police aren't doing anything at all to intervene in the petty crime/drug dealing stuff. . . which should be concerning. . .

. . .

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

I don't go out and about much these days, but I was in River North last Friday night as I had a friend in from out of town staying at a hotel up there - the scene on the street reminded me of what Times Square looked like in the 1975 film Taxi Driver but with the occasional fat white guy walking around with a Cold Stone Creamery cup in his hand. . .

The police generally close a bunch of streets off to through traffic after 10 or 11 and people are openly dealing drugs and smoking weed out on the streets in front of the police without any consideration. . . I say if you're dumb enough to be out after midnight in River North, that's on you. . . but it definitely feels like the police aren't doing anything at all to intervene in the petty crime/drug dealing stuff. . . which should be concerning. . .

. . .

If I had a friend from out of town staying here, I would direct them to other downtown neighborhoods. That's not to say River North is the South Side after Midnight, but for visitors, it might end with a bad look, and that's where people might get bad impressions of the whole city from one neighborhood.

[ithakas]

There was another shooting on that block a month or two ago (400 S. Wells, so pretty much the southwest Loop, not River North):

https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shoo...news/11813692/

I wouldn't be surprised if the city shuts down the club that's there, Persona. I think both shootings involved guests of that spot.

[pip]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

I don't go out and about much these days, but I was in River North last Friday night as I had a friend in from out of town staying at a hotel up there - the scene on the street reminded me of what Times Square looked like in the 1975 film Taxi Driver but with the occasional fat white guy walking around with a Cold Stone Creamery cup in his hand. . .

The police generally close a bunch of streets off to through traffic after 10 or 11 and people are openly dealing drugs and smoking weed out on the streets in front of the police without any consideration. . . I say if you're dumb enough to be out after midnight in River North, that's on you. . . but it definitely feels like the police aren't doing anything at all to intervene in the petty crime/drug dealing stuff. . . which should be concerning. . .

. . .

What can the police do? I'm not defending or criticizing the police but I can't see how things can be sorted out. Lakeview had about 300 people out of control a couple of nights ago. Along with the racing cars and motor bikes both without mufflers all night long. This started about 11pm or so and the police didn't get control of the situation until about 5am, again a few blocks from my place.

I'm not one to harp on crime but lately I have. Since my last post about crime about a week or two ago another 4 people have been shot within a few blocks of my place and 3 people stabbed - granted 3 of the shootings and the stabbings were after Pride at night. At night after the Pride events it is anything but gay and certainly not a Pride celebration.

I don't know what to say Chicago. I've been here almost 20 years. But things are out of control now. It is now at the point if it is later on in the evening maybe 11ish, I take Uber instead of walking a few blocks. The streets are absolutely deserted later in the evening outside of the Wrigleyville bar area or Halsted street in Boystown. I'm not walking those empty streets lol. Just the other night at around 10pm on Broadway, nearby my place, a car drove up to someone, people got out, kicked his ass and robbed him at gun point. It is not even just the violence, it is the lack of anything civil in behavior.

What the solution is, I have no idea. I'm afraid there is actually nothing that can be done.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by ithakas

There was another shooting on that block a month or two ago (400 S. Wells, so pretty much the southwest Loop, not River North):

https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shoo...news/11813692/

I wouldn't be surprised if the city shuts down the club that's there, Persona. I think both shootings involved guests of that spot.

I imagine Persona has security that pats people down on their way in. I wonder if the shooter waited outside for the victims after going to get their gun after some argument inside the nightclub....

[thegoatman]

Originally Posted by pip

What can the police do? I'm not defending or criticizing the police but I can't see how things can be sorted out. Lakeview had about 300 people out of control a couple of nights ago. Along with the racing cars and motor bikes both without mufflers all night long. This started about 11pm or so and the police didn't get control of the situation until about 5am, again a few blocks from my place.

I'm not one to harp on crime but lately I have. Since my last post about crime about a week or two ago another 4 people have been shot within a few blocks of my place and 3 people stabbed - granted 3 of the shootings and the stabbings were after Pride at night. At night after the Pride events it is anything but gay and certainly not a Pride celebration.

I don't know what to say Chicago. I've been here almost 20 years. But things are out of control now. It is now at the point if it is later on in the evening maybe 11ish, I take Uber instead of walking a few blocks. The streets are absolutely deserted later in the evening outside of the Wrigleyville bar area or Halsted street in Boystown. I'm not walking those empty streets lol. Just the other night at around 10pm on Broadway, nearby my place, a car drove up to someone, people got out, kicked his ass and robbed him at gun point. It is not even just the violence, it is the lack of anything civil in behavior.

What the solution is, I have no idea. I'm afraid there is actually nothing that can be done.

Is there another city besides New York which has people walking all along the night?

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

Is there another city besides New York which has people walking all along the night?

NYC barely even has that - it's just a few neighborhoods of Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. Go to most of Upper East Side or Upper West Side after 11pm (not just near Lincoln Center for example) on any night of the year and there's not many people out. Most of the city - all 5 boroughs - isn't crawling with people every second of the day. An old stereotype that died years ago there.

[Tom In Chicago]

This also isn't a Chicago specific problem as I hear about it in the local news in Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston and Oakland. . . the street takeover thing is pretty much a pandemic related phenom where there are more streets that are quieter than normal and people are simply not intimidated by law enforcement. . . the shit-show on Saturday/Sunday night here on Wacker and Columbus should have been shut down before it got started, but there you have lots of out of town hood folk who don't feel like CPD is going to respond - and probably don't care. . . it's not enough that they are getting stiffer sentences because only a handful of people are getting pinched. . .

I can't even imagine WTF is going on up in Boystown. . . that shit doesn't even make any damned sense to me. . . the LL regime and the cops have failed at providing basic safety measures. . . it's way above my pay grade, but it's a fucking mess to be sure. . .

[/rant]

. . .

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

This also isn't a Chicago specific problem as I hear about it in the local news in Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston and Oakland. . . the street takeover thing is pretty much a pandemic related phenom where there are more streets that are quieter than normal and people are simply not intimidated by law enforcement. . . the shit-show on Saturday/Sunday night here on Wacker and Columbus should have been shut down before it got started, but there you have lots of out of town hood folk who don't feel like CPD is going to respond - and probably don't care. . . it's not enough that they are getting stiffer sentences because only a handful of people are getting pinched. . .

I can't even imagine WTF is going on up in Boystown. . . that shit doesn't even make any damned sense to me. . . the LL regime and the cops have failed at providing basic safety measures. . . it's way above my pay grade, but it's a fucking mess to be sure. . .

[/rant]

. . .

Agree. If you spend time in other cities and on their social media you'll see a lot of the same rhetoric and things are going on elsewhere no matter what their actual crime levels are. When we were in NYC that started happening - not to the level in Chicago - but still to a point that made people think they were in the worst city in the world. It legitimately caused a lot of people to move. Now there was a bleed over of events there just like Chicago but NYC still remains one of the lowest crime rate cities in North America on the level of Toronto (way lower than Chicago in terms of murder rate for example). One of our friends moved from NYC to Oakland, and before she moved a number of months ago she was telling me how she was worried about NYC. She had no idea that Oakland has a much higher violent crime rate. A place 22X smaller than NYC with maybe like only 1/3 the number of murders.

There is a ton of manipulation out there and after doing huge deep dives into a number of things on crime, I know a lot of it is pretty political in nature. I have seen various outlets compare crime to say 2019 for a neighborhood to show that a particular type of crime is up. And then for another crime they compare to 2018. Well for that first time, if they compared to 2018 they'd see that things were flat or even a little down and further down if you went back a few more years and trending down over time with a few upticks here and there. And the other crime maybe that's true for 2017 that it was higher, so they only show back to 2018. Not much consistency in terms of reporting and it's obvious it's on purpose because then it would undermine the main point they want to set across. It's manipulating how data is reported, not always in a consistent manner, to get people to feel a certain way. There is some truth to various aspects of it but then that is taken and put into a partial context to make people believe things are worse than reality. I think too many people literally believed that because they weren't hearing about every event 5+ years ago that nothing was happening. Now that there's ultra micro news down to a building level, they think things are worse in ever regard than *ever* before.

At the same level, yeah I agree. There have been eye opening increases in murders and shootings in some areas that should be addressed. The administration seems pretty shitty at it. This is a problem going on in most cities in the US right now. Milwaukee right now for example has quite a bit higher rate than Chicago. Philadelphia has almost as many murders as Chicago with 1.1M less people, and the number of people shot there is only 200 or 300 lower than Chicago at again, 1.1M less people. That's not to T these things in Chicago but the entire country right now has some issues and it's specific to guns. In most areas of the city there's not more people being robbed than even 4 years ago, but there are more people being robbed with guns (just an example).


It's all messed up and it's not going to end anytime soon. There's a lot of misinformation out there and it's being actively shown to people to manipulate. I'd say tons of people are doing it and not necessarily just one side of the spectrum for the record.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by pip

What can the police do? I'm not defending or criticizing the police but I can't see how things can be sorted out. Lakeview had about 300 people out of control a couple of nights ago. Along with the racing cars and motor bikes both without mufflers all night long. This started about 11pm or so and the police didn't get control of the situation until about 5am, again a few blocks from my place.

I'm not one to harp on crime but lately I have. Since my last post about crime about a week or two ago another 4 people have been shot within a few blocks of my place and 3 people stabbed - granted 3 of the shootings and the stabbings were after Pride at night. At night after the Pride events it is anything but gay and certainly not a Pride celebration.

I don't know what to say Chicago. I've been here almost 20 years. But things are out of control now. It is now at the point if it is later on in the evening maybe 11ish, I take Uber instead of walking a few blocks. The streets are absolutely deserted later in the evening outside of the Wrigleyville bar area or Halsted street in Boystown. I'm not walking those empty streets lol. Just the other night at around 10pm on Broadway, nearby my place, a car drove up to someone, people got out, kicked his ass and robbed him at gun point. It is not even just the violence, it is the lack of anything civil in behavior.

What the solution is, I have no idea. I'm afraid there is actually nothing that can be done.

I've heard people in Lakeview say the same thing, even further west near Southport/Addison.

I was in River North last weekend, and there is certainly a feeling of lawlessness. Regardless if somebody is a victim of a crime, the feeling of having to be on edge has certainly increased, or at least it has in my opinion.

I've been out of the city for 2 years, and this past trip was the first time I didn't miss the city, and was glad to be gone.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

I've heard people in Lakeview say the same thing, even further west near Southport/Addison.

I was in River North last weekend, and there is certainly a feeling of lawlessness. Regardless if somebody is a victim of a crime, the feeling of having to be on edge has certainly increased, or at least it has in my opinion.

I've been out of the city for 2 years, and this past trip was the first time I didn't miss the city, and was glad to be gone.

I haven't even been out in River North since I moved back. West Loop on the other hand - a handful of times. I prefer that even though it's a very fast work in progress.

Up in Lincoln Park, Lakeview, etc things are pretty good. Lot of nice changes I've noticed and seems busier than the last time I was living in town. Pretty glad we moved up here and out of downtown. Crowd seems a bit more diverse and most people are living their lives (minus some online who are afraid to go outside even though the levels of crimes like robbery are really no higher or not much higher than a year like 2018 - for example...66 robberies in LP thru 6/27 this year versus 72 in the same time period in 2018, 69 in 2016, 83 in 2011, etc).

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I haven't even been out in River North since I moved back. West Loop on the other hand - a handful of times. I prefer that even though it's a very fast work in progress.

Up in Lincoln Park, Lakeview, etc things are pretty good. Lot of nice changes I've noticed and seems busier than the last time I was living in town. Pretty glad we moved up here and out of downtown. Crowd seems a bit more diverse and most people are living their lives (minus some online who are afraid to go outside even though the levels of crimes like robbery are really no higher or not much higher than a year like 2018 - for example...66 robberies in LP thru 6/27 this year versus 72 in the same time period in 2018, 69 in 2016, 83 in 2011, etc).

I’m on same page as you, that was my first time in River north in quite some time. I’m in the city often enough, and typically stick to Southport corridor in lake view or west loop where things are not nearly as crazy. River north on the other hand? No thanks.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

I’m on same page as you, that was my first time in River north in quite some time. I’m in the city often enough, and typically stick to Southport corridor in lake view or west loop where things are not nearly as crazy. River north on the other hand? No thanks.

I can't comment because I haven't hung out there since 2019 at all, but I have some friends who used to go to River North for nightlife but can't do it anymore. They told me the crowd got too crazy for them so they go to areas like West Loop now. West Loop is kind of turning or has turned into that new area that people want to be in. Gold Coast the few times I went didn't seem a ton different.

Interestingly enough, Near North Side (Gold Coast, River North, Streeterville, and a chunk of Old Town, plus Cabrini Green) has less robberies thru 6/27 this year than it did in 2019, 2018, etc. But downtown has an uptick of shootings problem 100%. At the same time, I've been working in the middle of The Loop 3 times a week since moving back and it really doesn't feel that different from a safety perspective than a number of years ago at least during working hours. October was a ghost town but nowadays there's way more people down there. Seems a lot more normal and not the "you never know who's going to be alone with you on the street if you turn this corner" vibe anymore.

Key to the city will be wrangling back in parts of downtown really. A few people are fearmongering where I live but in reality it's not really much different over the years, at least versus when I lived here before. We go out walking for 3+ miles at a time all around the neighborhood and things have been OK for us so far. Lot of people moving into these areas it seems from outside the midwest.

[Tom In Chicago]

I remember the 1970s and 80s and downtown Chicago was somewhat rougher and grittier, but you didn't have the scourge of random gun violence that seems to be the new normal. . . probably a generational thing as well. . .

I've lived downtown since 2005 and it seemed to be very safe - not that I worry about my safety now, but the general vibe seems different - and from the moment that the pandemic lockdowns hit it was like someone literally flipped a switch and drug dealers were openly selling on the street and the entire demographic of people shifted lower. . . since there was no office workers the only people you saw on the streets were teenagers that obviously weren't from any neighborhood near the Loop and homeless heroin addict panhandlers. . . it was really weird. . .

Now it's better, office workers are returning - albeit lesser than pre-pandemic numbers - and tourists have come back - albeit mostly of the domestic variety. . . seems like international tourism has yet to make a full recovery, but I don't have the numbers to back that up. . .

I do pay attention to a few other cities more closely - Los Angeles, Milwaukee and Philadelphia all appear to have very similar problems in relation to Chicago (I'm sure there are others). . . Los Angeles problems seems very similar to ours with a few notable exceptions (homeless is much much worse there), and Milwaukee has a weird trend where kids are stealing Kias for some reason. . . Philly is a big old mess from what I can tell and I think it's probably mostly due to the opioid problem that was plaguing the cities prior to the pandemic. . .

I'm wondering civic leaders can actually accomplish with existing tools. . . I mean do we just live with it and accept it as the way things are now or are there more constructive forums for discussion that are going on outside my bubble which I'm not aware of? I pretty much only watch WGN for local news and scan the papers, but I don't see any sort of greater discussion of the issues we face in our cities. . .

Maybe that's the least of our concerns as a society given the larger global problems we face (weekly mass shootings, polarizing politics, racial inequality, WWIII) but it makes me wonder given that our governors race is between a billionaire and a downstate farmer. . . it's like we're living in a cartoon. . .

Maybe one day we'll look back at these years and laugh. . . but maybe not. . .

[/more rants]

. . .

[twister244]

FWIW, I was on Mag Mile last Saturday during the day, and it was packed. It was by far the busiest I have seen downtown since 2019. Not sure if that trend will help things out, but the more people are out and about, perhaps the less criminals will be tempted to get greedy? At night, I don't know what it was like last weekend, but for sure during the day felt very much alive and 2019(ish).