Halifax CFL Team

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

True to a point, but conversely, people in Halifax tend to overinflate the importance of their city in people's consciousness's elsewhere in the region.

Really? In my experience, most people in Halifax don't pay much attention to the rest of the region. NB has a very low profile aside from Moncton, which a lot of people in Halifax think is the only other city (Saint John is weirdly obscure). People also know about touristy stuff in PEI and Cape Breton, and day trip destinations in the Halifax area like Lunenburg or the Annapolis Valley.

This may or may not be a good thing but it is a common dynamic is larger metro areas surrounded by smaller cities, towns, and rural areas. I think it's just going to increase as Halifax grows more than the surrounding areas and as it gets more immigrants who came from another country instead of somewhere else in the region.

For what it's worth I don't think it matters much in itself, but may be a symptom of the deeper problem of wealth going to a very small segment of society. Under this system, Halifax does OK and cities like Saint John and Sydney lose out, while most rural areas that are not quasi-suburbs are going to be depopulated completely. If we continue on this track, the Maritimes will eventually consist mostly of Halifax-Moncton plus some tourist areas.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

Really? In my experience, most people in Halifax don't pay much attention to the rest of the region. NB has a very low profile aside from Moncton, which a lot of people in Halifax think is the only other city (Saint John is weirdly obscure). People also know about touristy stuff in PEI and Cape Breton, and day trip destinations in the Halifax area like Lunenburg or the Annapolis Valley.

Yes, but this doesn't make any difference to my thesis, and in some ways validates it.

Haligonians are dismissive of the rest of the region because they think the rest of the region is unimportant. Ergo they are de facto overinflating the importance of their city within the Maritimes (within their own minds). As far as Haligonians are concerned, Halifax is the Maritimes. Nothing else much matters.

And for those of us living beyond that golden 2.5-3 hour driving radius, Halifax is not important in our daily lives. It is sort of there as a place to go to on a long weekend, but we are able to conduct 99% of our lives completely divorced from the orbit of greater Haligon.

I lived in Halifax for nine years, so I am familiar with the Halifax mindset but I grew up in PEI, have lived in NB for nearly 30 years and also spent some time in Cape Breton. I know the whole region and I know for a fact that outside peninsular NS, Halifax is mostly just a relatively remote (inconvenient to get to) medium sized city which for some reason has complete control over the regional media.

I am not trying to shit on Halifax BTW. I honestly like the city. There is a chance I might retire back there. It's just that the relevance of Halifax to most NBers and PEIslanders just isn't there. It's partly because we are in different provinces, but also partly because of distance as well.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Harrijo

I just don't see the possibility of a stadium being built in Halifax.

Moncton shouldn't be granted a team on the basis that Halifax doesn't have a stadium. If there was interest in Moncton you would think there would be a group of interested owners.

Again, the CFL isn't some wizard that just wishes teams into cities - there has to be desire locally as well, and there hasn't been substantial enough local investor desire in Moncton to indicate anything resembling a CFL team whatsoever.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Moncton shouldn't be granted a team on the basis that Halifax doesn't have a stadium. If there was interest in Moncton you would think there would be a group of interested owners.

And the stadium in Moncton is a track and field stadium with a soccer pitch installed for the Women's World Cup. It would be a great venue for a Canadian Premier League team (which could be a possibility at some point), but it is not a football stadium.

The Moncton Stadium does not give Moncton a leg up on Halifax.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Haligonians are dismissive of the rest of the region because they think the rest of the region is unimportant.

The "rest of the region" isn't a place though, it's an abstraction. You can only visit specific areas. And no specific area has much to draw visitors from the city. Moncton had a bit of this when there were more events but it is within the normal Halifax "orbit" anyway.

I don't doubt that people living in Northern NB go about their lives without needing to visit Halifax much, at all if they don't want to. But I have never in my life heard somebody in Halifax claim otherwise or worry about it at all. If people talk about Northern NB it's about how long it takes to drive through that area on the way to Quebec.

Like I said the only place that is somewhat puzzling to me is Saint John. Unfortunately it is kind of hard to get to from NS because of geography. But I think it could be a more popular spot if it focused more on making its best historic areas as attractive as possible. People would be falling over each other to spend seven figures on many of the cheap properties in SJ if they were in Toronto or Vancouver.

[Keith P.]

I wish some rich old-money dude(s) would announce they are prepared to build a stadium here for the CFL with the proviso that it be named Cornwallis Stadium. It would be utterly exquisite to see our municipal politicians try to wrangle their way out of that one.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

Like I said the only place that is somewhat puzzling to me is Saint John. Unfortunately it is kind of hard to get to from NS because of geography. But I think it could be a more popular spot if it focused more on making its best historic areas as attractive as possible. People would be falling over each other to spend seven figures on many of the cheap properties in SJ if they were in Toronto or Vancouver.

I maintain that Saint John has serious potential. It's not too far gone for a comeback.

To the larger point, I've found it odd since moving here how much Haligonians are derisive to other parts of the region, but also how ignorant of Halifax many people from NB and PEI are. (I live in the Hydrostone, in one of the houses built as part of the recovery effort, and when people from other provinces visit, I'm often left explaining what the explosion was--I woul've though that'd be a pretty basic bit of regional history in school).

So it goes both ways. Really, you could replace "Halifax" with "Toronto" and "the Maritimes" with "southwestern Ontario" and it'd be the same relationship.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I maintain that Saint John has serious potential. It's not too far gone for a comeback.

In some regards that comeback has already started - Uptown has been doing tremendously well the past few years and there has been serious momentum. Future surges in immigration should do nothing but fuel this further. The only thing holding it back is NB's backwards economic thinking and demographics as a whole.

Originally Posted by Drybrain

So it goes both ways. Really, you could replace "Halifax" with "Toronto" and "the Maritimes" with "southwestern Ontario" and it'd be the same relationship.

The way I explain it to Ontarians is that Halifax to the rest of the Maritimes is the exact same as Toronto to the rest of Ontario. It's a pretty accurate comparison.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

In some regards that comeback has already started - Uptown has been doing tremendously well the past few years and there has been serious momentum. Future surges in immigration should do nothing but fuel this further. The only thing holding it back is NB's backwards economic thinking and demographics as a whole.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by JHikka

]The way I explain it to Ontarians is that Halifax to the rest of the Maritimes is the exact same as Toronto to the rest of Ontario. It's a pretty accurate comparison.

Again agreed. Or, like Vancouver to the rest of BC. There will always be tension, suspicion and disconnect between any city that views itself as the regional metropole and everyone else.

Just look at London and the rest of the UK.........

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I wish some rich old-money dude(s) would announce they are prepared to build a stadium here for the CFL with the proviso that it be named Cornwallis Stadium. It would be utterly exquisite to see our municipal politicians try to wrangle their way out of that one.

That would indeed be sweet and delicious revenge. If only it would happen.......

It would be worth it if for nothing else than to see the typical SJW's heads turning purple with rage.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

To the larger point, I've found it odd since moving here how much Haligonians are derisive to other parts of the region, but also how ignorant of Halifax many people from NB and PEI are. (I live in the Hydrostone, in one of the houses built as part of the recovery effort, and when people from other provinces visit, I'm often left explaining what the explosion was--I woul've though that'd be a pretty basic bit of regional history in school).

The Maritimes can be quite parochial. I grew up on PEI and probably the first time I visited Halifax was when I was 13. I don't recall spending any more than a few nights total in the city until I moved to Halifax when I was 22.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Ha ha... it's sounding like you Moncton folks are way too sensitive on the subject...

Seriously, though, I've never really understood the perceived 'rivalry' between Halifax and Moncton. It's like saying I like apples more than bacon - very different and not really comparable, but I like them both.

From a business sense, though, having the team in Halifax seems more logical in that it can draw from a much larger local population and therefore has a better chance to have a sustainable higher attendance at more games.

To put it in a practical sense, for Saturday games, sure you will have more fans who are willing to travel 2 - 3 hours each way to attend a game, maybe stay overnight and make a weekend out of it. However, how many of those will be willing to do this on a work night? How many Haligonians would travel to Moncton on a Wednesday night, which would likely involve leaving work early for many, travel to Moncton, take in a game that will probably finish up between 9 and 10 pm, then drive 2.5 hours back to Halifax so they can go to work the next day? How many Monctoners plan to do it if the team is in Halifax?

My sense is that while the idea of a CFL team is fresh and new, there would be quite a bit of this for the more enthusiastic fans. But this will trail off as the games become a more regular occurrence. The casual fan probably would rarely make the trip, and of course the more rabid fans will continue to make the trip - but those fans would probably travel to the Miramichi to watch a game...

[Harrijo]

I understand your point about it being a larger city and it makes more sense to do business there. You have to consider the mindset of some people that dwell in the city.

But it's my experience that the city mired in mediocrity and concerned with only tearing down its past instead of building a bright and prosperous future. Outside of Hockey and Curling, Halifax doesn't have any experience hold major sporting events. The Davis Tennis thing was a disaster...

No Offense!

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Harrijo

But it's my experience that the city mired in mediocrity and concerned with only tearing down its past instead of building a bright and prosperous future. Outside of Hockey and Curling, Halifax doesn't have any experience hold major sporting events. The Davis Tennis thing was a disaster...

Not sure what that has to do with the plans for a long term football franchise. It's easy to be a naysayer about a million things. Ottawa football was supposed to be a disaster (after all, it failed twice before) but that tends to happen when you have absentee owners who don't live and breathe it.

There's a lot less opposition to this than to many other sports endeavours, people are generally behind the idea, across the Maritimes.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Harrijo

I understand your point about it being a larger city and it makes more sense to do business there. You have to consider the mindset of some people that dwell in the city.

But it's my experience that the city mired in mediocrity and concerned with only tearing down its past instead of building a bright and prosperous future. Outside of Hockey and Curling, Halifax doesn't have any experience hold major sporting events. The Davis Tennis thing was a disaster...

No Offense!

I wish a Halifax CFL team well.

Now that the issue of where the team will be located has been settled, I hold no hard feelings and I will likely try to go to about one game per year if I can.

I however feel strongly that they shouldn't call the team the "Maritime This" or the "Atlantic That" unless they are truly serious about representing the entire region. This includes player appearances, training camps, promotional events etc. If this is not the owners intent, then just get on with it and call the team the Halifax Privateers. I'm cool with that and there are no hard feelings.

I'm sure a Halifax franchise will be successful. A Moncton franchise would have been exciting, but it would not have had as good a chance for success without Halifax's support. Maybe we'll try again in 40-50 years time.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Harrijo

I understand your point about it being a larger city and it makes more sense to do business there. You have to consider the mindset of some people that dwell in the city.

But it's my experience that the city mired in mediocrity and concerned with only tearing down its past instead of building a bright and prosperous future. Outside of Hockey and Curling, Halifax doesn't have any experience hold major sporting events. The Davis Tennis thing was a disaster...

No Offense!

I don't see anything to be offended by, but I do question some of your statements.

Maybe I'm blind to the 'mindset', but still not sure what that has to do with getting more rear ends in seats on a regular basis to support a team financially.

To be honest, 'mindset' can be as much about the person who is perceiving the mindset as the person who is 'delivering it'. That's not meant to offend, but simply that somebody from a smaller area might think Haligonians have an attitude towards their area, and maybe they do, but there often is a corresponding attitude coming from the other side. It's not unlike the whole Halifax-Toronto thing. It would be nice if we could all look at one another with an open mind, but unfortunately that's not always the case... and it's not unique to Halifax and Moncton.

You say that Halifax is mired in mediocrity, but all you have to do is look at how many construction projects are going on in Halifax now? Is that mediocrity in action? I know Halifax well, and I know Moncton well - They are both great cities but there are huge differences between them. You must know what I'm talking about. I like Moncton and visit there regularly, BTW.

Major sporting events... like the Canada Games? World Junior Hockey tournament? I attended the Davis Cup and actually thought it went off well, enjoyed the event very much... so not sure of what you are talking about there.

Regardless, I would have been just as happy if Moncton was in the hunt for a team. Either way it would be good for the region as a whole.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I wish a Halifax CFL team well.

Now that the issue of where the team will be located has been settled, I hold no hard feelings and I will likely try to go to about one game per year if I can.

I however feel strongly that they shouldn't call the team the "Maritime This" or the "Atlantic That" unless they are truly serious about representing the entire region. This includes player appearances, training camps, promotional events etc. If this is not the owners intent, then just get on with it and call the team the Halifax Privateers. I'm cool with that and there are no hard feelings.

I'm sure a Halifax franchise will be successful. A Moncton franchise would have been exciting, but it would not have had as good a chance for success without Halifax's support. Maybe we'll try again in 40-50 years time.

I too would hope that a regionally named team would find ways to support the entire region. Same holds if they name it after Halifax, for that matter.

As mentioned, I would have been just as happy if the team were going to Moncton, though I'm not so sure it's a definite for Halifax yet. Either way it would be good for the region, IMHO.

Just curious, why would you only plan to attend 1 game per year?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Just curious, why would you only plan to attend 1 game per year?

Mostly the cost and inconvenience of the travel.

If my kids were still young enough and living at home, I might have done it several times a year as a family outing.

If the team had been in Moncton, I would have been a charter seasons ticket holder!!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Mostly the cost and inconvenience of the travel.

If my kids were still young enough and living at home, I might have done it several times a year as a family outing.

If the team had been in Moncton, I would have been a charter seasons ticket holder!!

Thanks!

My way of thinking is similar in that I will occasionally go to Moncton to attend music events, as your Casino tends to attract some acts that don't make it to Halifax, plus the Moncton Casino's venue is better than Halifax's. I am somewhat limited as to which ones I can go to, as it will require a hotel stay at least, and a day (or morning and afternoon) or two off work if it happens through the week. I suspect that the same limitations will apply to football no matter where it is played.

Hopefully, if Halifax gets a team, you will be able to make it "down here" more than once per year, though!

[DT Hfx]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Mostly the cost and inconvenience of the travel.

If the team had been in Moncton, I would have been a charter seasons ticket holder!!

If this honest opinion from an avid footballer is representative of how little support a Halifax CFL team would receive from out-of-province then likely Halifax is not big enough to make a viable team.