Royal Connaught Hotel | ? | 36 fl, 33 fl, 24 fl & 13 fl | U/C

[LikeHamilton]

This is just all business to them. They all have more than enough money to float this project on their own but did not want to spend any of their own money. Tony Battaglia just recently sold his share of Tradeport (Hamilton Airport) to YVR Services for millions and he was already worth millions. He was President and part-owner of WestPark Developments. Mario Frankovich used to own half of AIC with Michael Lee-Chin and sold it to him for millions. He started Burgeonvest Securities Limited with his money and is now worth almost as much as Chin.
They really where not looking to spend much of their own money. They wanted to use someone else’s money and make a profit from that.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

This is just all business to them. They all have more than enough money to float this project on their own but did not want to spend any of their own money. Tony Battaglia just recently sold his share of Tradeport (Hamilton Airport) to YVR Services for millions and he was already worth millions. He was President and part-owner of WestPark Developments. Mario Frankovich used to own half of AIC with Michael Lee-Chin and sold it to him for millions. He started Burgeonvest Securities Limited with his money and is now worth almost as much as Chin.
They really where not looking to spend much of their own money. They wanted to use someone else’s money and make a profit from that.

yea, MY MONEY.
Socialism for the rich.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

They only did asbestos abatement. Considering the costs and complexities of that process--and given that it alone has derailed renovation projects in other cities, you can't downplay the fact that this process is complete--and it's completion makes the project a heck of a lot more appealing to potential buyers/investors.

My point, fastcarsfreedom, was that the only thing that this consortium completed at this site was an asbestos abatement project funded entirely by a city grant and not by the consortium. In other words, the abatement was done using city money (i.e. resident taxpayers' money). Meantime, it has sat vacant and they have 'rented' the site out for several film shoots, generating income for the consortium which hasn't made it back into redevelopment in any way. Now, they will dissolve the consortium and sell off an empty structure clear of asbestos. With abatement completed, the asking price for the building can be inflated considerably and they will stand to make a fair chunk of change on the flip.

A great way to make a quick buck at the taxpayers' expense, wouldn't you say? You may feel they deserve credit for this, but I for one will not quietly allow my tax dollars to be exploited in this manner.

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Di Ianni is gone--part of me wishes LIUNA would disappear too, just so I could see where the blame for everything that is wrong in the city would shift to.

C'mon, let's be fair here. No one has ever laid blame for all the city's woes on LIUNA alone - they have had lots of help doing that! However, they are principle parties in the city's two highest-profile development boondongles, and deserve to be taken to task for this.

Are you saying LIUNA doesn't deserve the critisicm they receive over their handling of Lister and Connaught? If you do feel this way, I would invite you to actually visit Hamilton some time soon and take a walk along King and James between these two buildings so you can see what we who live here have to deal with on a daily basis. Your opinion on LIUNA may change drastically if you lived in the shadow of these buildings.

[HAMRetrofit]

Lets just speculate what it cost them to do this asbestos removal. Likely four or five laborers over a two week time span at ten dollars an hour. Perhaps eight to ten grand for labor. Union fees deducted from their paycheck back into their pockets. Disposal of asbestos deposited at a landfill that they no doubt control (or 'friends' control) paying themselves for disposal. A nice two hundred grand divided four ways = thank you Hamilton taxpayers for the new bimmer. Resale of the building will earn a nice profit especially with how hot hotel space in Hamilton is becoming.

Nice control of supply and demand. Adam Smith would be proud.

Reaction of Hamilton citizens =

I welcome others to attempt recalculating this more accurately.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

My point, fastcarsfreedom, was that the only thing that this consortium completed at this site was an asbestos abatement project funded entirely by a city grant and not by the consortium. In other words, the abatement was done using city money (i.e. resident taxpayers' money). Meantime, it has sat vacant and they have 'rented' the site out for several film shoots, generating income for the consortium which hasn't made it back into redevelopment in any way. Now, they will dissolve the consortium and sell off an empty structure clear of asbestos. With abatement completed, the asking price for the building can be inflated considerably and they will stand to make a fair chunk of change on the flip.

A great way to make a quick buck at the taxpayers' expense, wouldn't you say? You may feel they deserve credit for this, but I for one will not quietly allow my tax dollars to be exploited in this manner.




C'mon, let's be fair here. No one has ever laid blame for all the city's woes on LIUNA alone - they have had lots of help doing that! However, they are principle parties in the city's two highest-profile development boondongles, and deserve to be taken to task for this.

Are you saying LIUNA doesn't deserve the critisicm they receive over their handling of Lister and Connaught? If you do feel this way, I would invite you to actually visit Hamilton some time soon and take a walk along King and James between these two buildings so you can see what we who live here have to deal with on a daily basis. Your opinion on LIUNA may change drastically if you lived in the shadow of these buildings.

Liuna is a 50% partner in Lister and a minority partner in the Connaught, but they are singled out here much like DiIanni was because the public face is Italian, and to most Anglos (especially in Hamilton), Italian Businessmen=Criminals/corrupt/Mafia, etc.

Had this been headed by WASP Inc., it would be a different story.

[the dude]

ummmm, are we talking about larry diianni? ya, he's a target because he's italian...oh, man. his list of indiscretions is as long as my arm.

[the dude]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

yea, MY MONEY.
Socialism for the rich.

ya, but there's another word for it, too - neoliberalism.

[oldcoote]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Liuna is a 50% partner in Lister and a minority partner in the Connaught, but they are singled out here much like DiIanni was because the public face is Italian, and to most Anglos (especially in Hamilton), Italian Businessmen=Criminals/corrupt/Mafia, etc.

Had this been headed by WASP Inc., it would be a different story.

wow...that's quite a stretch

[hamiltonguy]

They might be Italian but that's not why people make mafia associations (there are organized crime groups among every ethnicity).


Instead accusations are made based on public knowledge that LIUNA has had problems with the mafia, and that Larry DiAnni accepted HUGE over contributions from companies widely believed to be corrupt.

If the shoe fits...

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Liuna is a 50% partner in Lister and a minority partner in the Connaught, but they are singled out here much like DiIanni was because the public face is Italian, and to most Anglos (especially in Hamilton), Italian Businessmen=Criminals/corrupt/Mafia, etc.

Had this been headed by WASP Inc., it would be a different story.

That's very lame, even for you Goldfinger. Being of Italian descent myself, I can clearly and confidently say that my critisicm of LIUNA (and DiIanni for that matter) has to do with their poor performance, and not their perceived heritage.

I have also been critical of the lack of interest in incorporating the Board of Education building into the McMaster Downtown Medical site proposal rather than demolishing it. Seeing that Peter George and David Braley are as WASP as it gets, guess my criticm of them is just anti-WASP, eh?

Too quick throwing down a race card here, my friend.

[fastcarsfreedom]

markbarbera--I visit frequently. The buildings are both a disgrace, particularly Lister which has sat in limbo for far too long. That being said, LIUNA has executed several projects around the city with great success. The problems which have plagued Lister began long before anyone from LIUNA ever set foot out of their nifty little offices on Hughson. Something SHOULD have happened at Lister years ago--agreed, but placing all the blame on LIUNA is short-sighted. The demolition/rebuilding scenario--though preservationists opposed it, appeared workable from a financing/business standpoint--frankly, it has been the meddling of other levels of government that has left things where they currently are. As for the Connaught, it is completely ridiculous to suggest that the consortium members would fund such a massive project on their own--if you honestly believe that development projects are funded that way, you need a lesson in the basics of real estate financing...it's not the way it works, for obvious reasons. That being said, if the predictions at city council are true, and the consortium is planning to file for bankruptcy, it shoots holes in the theory that this deal has somehow been spun into a tidy profit at taxpayers' expense. Clearly there is debt on the books, or there would be no bankruptcy.

[flar]

We can only speculate, but the consortium's losses may have been intentional--a tax shelter. We don't even know if they have/are filing for bankruptcy.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Liuna is a 50% partner in Lister and a minority partner in the Connaught, but they are singled out here much like DiIanni was because the public face is Italian, and to most Anglos (especially in Hamilton), Italian Businessmen=Criminals/corrupt/Mafia, etc.

Had this been headed by WASP Inc., it would be a different story.

thank-you very much. We are all now dumber for having read this.

[the dude]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Liuna is a 50% partner in Lister and a minority partner in the Connaught, but they are singled out here much like DiIanni was because the public face is Italian, and to most Anglos (especially in Hamilton), Italian Businessmen=Criminals/corrupt/Mafia, etc.

Had this been headed by WASP Inc., it would be a different story.

larry? larry, is that you? good luck in the next federal election. if anyone deserves to be in ottawa it's you.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

thank-you very much. We are all now dumber for having read this.

Ya ok...

This coming from someone who has put all his faith into a clown who used to pitch condos to people on late night infomercials.

If Stinson was to go into a partnership with LIUNA, would that make him an accessory?

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Ya ok...

This coming from someone who has put all his faith into a clown who used to pitch condos to people on late night infomercials.

If Stinson was to go into a partnership with LIUNA, would that make him an accessory?

all my faith???
my faith is in the real people working hard everyday to turn this city around. You'll find them on James North, King East, the Market, homeowners buying and renovating...and meetings galore to better our city.
If you've read my posts on here over the years it's pretty easy to know that.
Yea, I hope Stinson does something great, but that's not called putting 'all my faith'.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by flar

We can only speculate, but the consortium's losses may have been intentional--a tax shelter. We don't even know if they have/are filing for bankruptcy.

Uh, that's not the way a tax shelter works. If they are declaring bankruptcy, then there are creditors waiting for a liquidation to get paid. Losses from the corporation can be trnsferred but it would be very limited and not worth the effort.

[SteelTown]

I highly doubt Stinson will do this alone. It's best that he works with other group of investors.

I'm predicting that the Connaught group will approach Stinson and ask if he'll join the group and of course Stinson will negotiate to get some things that he wants. Doing that Stinson will help avoid the group file for bankruptcy.

Watch over the new few days regarding the Connaught. Council is about to table a motion to force the Connaught owner to secure the building (see if that passes first) and McHattie will also table a motion to force owners of heritage buildings to keep the property up to standards.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

... McHattie will also table a motion to force owners of heritage buildings to keep the property up to standards.

I REALLY hope this passes! Not only will it improve what is currently occupied (such as Delta Bingo/Kresges which needs a face-lift ASAP), but will most likely cause the current 'land-speculators' to sell what they have so they don't have to pay for the improvements since they obviously don't care about how their properties look now.

[flar]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Uh, that's not the way a tax shelter works. If they are declaring bankruptcy, then there are creditors waiting for a liquidation to get paid. Losses from the corporation can be trnsferred but it would be very limited and not worth the effort.

Without specifics, your statement is as speculative as mine, except mine is clearly speculation while yours is stated with certainty.


edit:
Perhaps there were losses last year, or a previous year, maybe the year when one of the investors made millions...