The future of Hamilton's public transit

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

Bus shelter installations? No big schemes, at least. It could also be going to fleet upgrades too, the stock from ~2007 is really showing it's age

Buses have a 15 year lifespan, so some should be hitting retirement. And no, refurbishment isn't an option, for safety reasons, they are retired completely at 15.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Buses have a 15 year lifespan, so some should be hitting retirement. And no, refurbishment isn't an option, for safety reasons, they are retired completely at 15.

Maintenance issues creep in as well. And the operational costs of a new vehicle tend to be lower than those of the old.

[matt602]

HSR hasn't made a new bus purchase since 2018. The last remaining '05 bus, the few '06 artics and hybrids and the entire '07 fleet will be due for retirement next year so some of that should be allocated to replacements I'd imagine.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Looking at the budget, $140 million is for the bus garage.

That is correct.

The proposed 2021 capital spend for Hamilton’s public transit agency, the Hamilton Street Railway, is $192,892,000. Of this, around 75 percent, $140,208,000 is being funded by other levels of government.

The big item is a new Transit Maintenance and Storage Facility, more commonly referred to as the “bus barn” to house the new buses and other vehicles the HSR will purchase for planning future transit expansions. This is $140,000,000.

The HSR will conduct routine replacement of existing buses, and the capital budgets proposes to purchase buses for service expansion which will occur in September 2021.

Other capital spending is for real-time operations management and information infrastructure at $4,250,000, and $2,000,000 for transit priority changes to Upper James Street as part of larger work on the major Mountain arterial road.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

They're getting a new Bus Barn I'm excited to see it. I wonder where it'll be.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

They're getting a new Bus Barn I'm excited to see it. I wonder where it'll be.

You can find more info here:
https://www.hamilton.ca/city-plannin...acility-design

Here's where it'll be located

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Oh! This is a large project, I'm surprised I haven't heard of it till now.

This is going to be exciting to watch next year.

[ScreamingViking]

Without this, the 10-year plan for transit cannot happen.

If the HSR keeps the facility on Upper James -- I've read nothing about them selling it... has anyone else? -- despite the overhead of managing two buildings it will make total travel more efficient and generate some savings for the fleet: shorter trips between the M/S facility and starting/end points for many routes, especially in the lower city (called "deadheading", because there's no fare revenue associated with those trips).

It's also a little more than a kilometre from the maintenance/storage facility which used to be on Wentworth north of King. Cathedral high school was built there.

[Innsertnamehere]

My understanding is that HSR plans to maintain both facilities. The existing garage on Upper James is jammed to the absolute max right now, with many buses literally being parked on a gravel lot in behind as overflow. The new bus barn on Birch will allow for growth and provide both facilities room to breath, especially if the LRT doesn't happen, which would otherwise have allowed for the HSR to shrink it's bus fleet a bit.

The existing facilities location always struck me as odd as it really is sort of in the middle of nowhere - most bus routes would have huge deadhead times because of that.

[mishap]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

If the HSR keeps the facility on Upper James -- I've read nothing about them selling it... has anyone else?

They need both buildings. Each garage is designed for about 200 buses. I'm not sure exactly what the HSR has right now, but they're probably holding 270-280 buses on the grounds in Mount Hope. They're so pressed for space that the Mountain Transit Terminal is literally a parking lot at night.
One of the advantages of a new building is that there are no retrofitting costs to incorporate new technologies, like electric bus infrastructure. And yes, there will be some savings from eliminating deadheading.

It's also a little more than a kilometre from the maintenance/storage facility which used to be on Wentworth north of King. Cathedral high school was built there.

And it's right next door to the Wentworth Garage that they used up to 2001.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The existing facilities location always struck me as odd as it really is sort of in the middle of nowhere - most bus routes would have huge deadhead times because of that.

Probably a combination of finding as much land as needed on a tight budget, and expectations that the suburban bus network across Ancaster/south mountain/upper Stoney Creek would be larger and offer much more service than it currently does.

If airport-related development and employment happen as planned, it will end up being a fairly reasonable location. Provided transit is given the go-ahead to expand to serve those workers... never a sure thing with city council.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by mishap

They need both buildings. Each garage is designed for about 200 buses. I'm not sure exactly what the HSR has right now, but they're probably holding 270-280 buses on the grounds in Mount Hope. They're so pressed for space that the Mountain Transit Terminal is literally a parking lot at night.
One of the advantages of a new building is that there are no retrofitting costs to incorporate new technologies, like electric bus infrastructure. And yes, there will be some savings from eliminating deadheading.

And it's right next door to the Wentworth Garage that they used up to 2001.

That's probably about right. The Wikipedia page lists 267 but the reference isn't correctly listed and who knows if that's up to date. I used to get the annual CUTA transit fact books for work and they detailed all kinds of stuff about the systems and fleets, but that was a few years ago.

It still baffles me that the HSR doesn't have its own website! Even the transit pages on the city website don't seem to list basic information about the HSR, at least somewhere easy to find, which one would expect. Just my opinion but I think it's one more thing that goes to show the level of importance the city places on transit.

I recall that Wentworth north site being considered for LRT maintenance and storage as well. This Raise the Hammer article from a few years back talks about it and design/construction issues, plus retrofit issues for LRT (one of the commenters also discusses that). And the article talks about the reasoning for the Upper James site location - "The criteria included extra space for future expansion; ease of access; and a location remote from development, to avoid complaints of noise and fumes."

[matt602]

It's pretty crazy that when you compare Hamilton to other similarly sized cities, their transit agencies commonly have 3 or more transit garages. Makes you realize that the HSR does an amazing job working with how little they have. They will definitely need both garages going forward and as already posted, it will reduce deadheading time because the lower city routes won't have to run all the way up the mountain at the end of service, and vice versa. Makes a big difference in a city thats as geographically challenged as Hamilton is.

[StEC]

This will be a huge cost savings for the city having a bus barn down the mountain, could also lend to possible earlier/later bus trips?

As someone who rides the HSR daily, I really REALLY hope they retire the ancient articulated busses and replace them with electric ones. It would be awesome to have the entire lower routes completely electric since they will not be travelling up the mountain and to cut down massively on the noise and pollution downtown! Hopefully this new bus barn will be built to handle an electric fleet in mind!

These old articulated busses have gotten so bad that I will let one go by in hopes the next one will be a newer one, yes it's a gamble but one I'm willing to take. They are that bad, that painful to ride, that noisy/headache inducing and the fumes inside the busses are brutal they got to be removed! They are literally falling apart and Hamilton's brutal roads which probably lead the problem in the first place only compound the issue, it's a vicious cycle! The newer articulated busses still have some suspension left so the bumps aren't that bad or that noisy and you're not breathing in fumes but even they are really starting to age prematurely. You would think the city would do better road maintenance on the major bus routes which in turn would extend the life of the bus fleet in the long run.

[matt602]

Originally Posted by StEC

This will be a huge cost savings for the city having a bus barn down the mountain, could also lend to possible earlier/later bus trips?

As someone who rides the HSR daily, I really REALLY hope they retire the ancient articulated busses and replace them with electric ones. It would be awesome to have the entire lower routes completely electric since they will not be travelling up the mountain and to cut down massively on the noise and pollution downtown! Hopefully this new bus barn will be built to handle an electric fleet in mind!

These old articulated busses have gotten so bad that I will let one go by in hopes the next one will be a newer one, yes it's a gamble but one I'm willing to take. They are that bad, that painful to ride, that noisy/headache inducing and the fumes inside the busses are brutal they got to be removed! They are literally falling apart and Hamilton's brutal roads which probably lead the problem in the first place only compound the issue, it's a vicious cycle! The newer articulated busses still have some suspension left so the bumps aren't that bad or that noisy and you're not breathing in fumes but even they are really starting to age prematurely. You would think the city would do better road maintenance on the major bus routes which in turn would extend the life of the bus fleet in the long run.

The last of the oldest articulated buses (bus 0610) will almost certainly be retired this year and some of the worst 09 articulated buses might even go this year as well since as you've pointed out, they're in terrible condition. The CNG fueled, newer articulated buses seem to be holding up a lot better than their diesel counterparts did.

[thistleclub]

2020-2021 Provincial Gas Tax Funding: $11,687,199

[craftbeerdad]

Originally Posted by StEC

You would think the city would do better road maintenance on the major bus routes which in turn would extend the life of the bus fleet in the long run.

This is way too logical and practical for the city to implement proactive road maintenance programs on major bus routes to increase longevity of the bus fleet. You'd never be able to run for city council!

[LikeHamilton]

HSR Director of Transit Debbie Dalle Vedove announces she is retiring. Her last day in the office will be June 30, 2021.

[urbandreamer]

Jason Thorne has an idea for a simple seat at bus stops in tight areas:
https://twitter.com/JasonThorne_RPP/...65684649791493

I thought it looked cheap/ugly so came up with an alternative design:

example location: Cannon & Catharine https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ca...4!4d-79.863307

[StEC]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Jason Thorne has an idea for a simple seat at bus stops in tight areas:
https://twitter.com/JasonThorne_RPP/...65684649791493

I thought it looked cheap/ugly so came up with an alternative design:

example location: Cannon & Catharine https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ca...4!4d-79.863307

I like this idea.