Arts Groups Lament Sale of Theatre to Church

[whatnext]

This was touched on in another thread, but it deserves its own, as its another signpost on Vancouver's slide to mediocrity. What does it say about this city when we've lost one theatre company and now a purpose built showplace theatre in just over a year? What does it say about tax policy when a $9 million property can be struck off the tax rolls for a church but taxed as a cultural venue?

And then there's the theatre itself, one of Vancouver's few starchitecture buildings:

When internationally acclaimed architect Moshe Safdie designed what is now called The Centre in Vancouver for Performing Arts, he was challenged to do a lot in a confined building space.

And he succeeded brilliantly, giving Vancouver one of the most remarkable stages in the country.

Surprisingly, that theatre will soon be lost to the city’s cultural scene – and hardly anyone seems to have noticed....

...Westside Church, an evangelical congregation that now gathers on Granville Island to celebrate the teachings of Jesus and listen to sermons about the sins of homosexuality, is in the process of buying the Centre from Denver-based Four Brothers Entertainment.

The Centre recently sent out bulletins to the Vancouver International Film Festival and the Goh Ballet, cancelling their bookings for later this year....

...Somehow, in part by scrimping on the loading bays and the wings, he squeezed 1,800 perfectly placed seats in to the building, cupping the audience around a stage framed by a dramatic proscenium arch.

It is part of the magic of the Centre that reclining in those plush, purple velvet seats, you have perfect sightlines no matter where you sit in the house. That, together with the building’s remarkable acoustics and the compressed lobby that just buzzes with excitement on opening nights, makes it a special experience.

“From an audience perspective, in the house, it’s the best theatre in the city,”...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle12023530/

[osirisboy]

This is something I would expect to read on April fools day! Seriously wtf??

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

This is something I would expect to read on April fools day! Seriously wtf??

Indeed, it is a very bad joke. Where is the $23 million that was set aside for the the Coal Harbour Arts Centre Complex fund? That would have covered the cost of buying the Centre and that lame rental car facility behind it, to give the theatre a larger backstage area.

[Porfiry]

Why should the taxpayer bail out a theatre when there's a legitimate private buyer with cash in hand?

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

This was touched on in another thread, but it deserves its own, as its another signpost on Vancouver's slide to mediocrity. What does it say about this city when we've lost one theatre company and now a purpose built showplace theatre in just over a year? What does it say about tax policy when a $9 million property can be struck off the tax rolls for a church but taxed as a cultural venue?

And then there's the theatre itself, one of Vancouver's few starchitecture buildings:

When internationally acclaimed architect Moshe Safdie designed what is now called The Centre in Vancouver for Performing Arts, he was challenged to do a lot in a confined building space.

And he succeeded brilliantly, giving Vancouver one of the most remarkable stages in the country.

Surprisingly, that theatre will soon be lost to the city’s cultural scene – and hardly anyone seems to have noticed....

...Westside Church, an evangelical congregation that now gathers on Granville Island to celebrate the teachings of Jesus and listen to sermons about the sins of homosexuality, is in the process of buying the Centre from Denver-based Four Brothers Entertainment.

The Centre recently sent out bulletins to the Vancouver International Film Festival and the Goh Ballet, cancelling their bookings for later this year....

...Somehow, in part by scrimping on the loading bays and the wings, he squeezed 1,800 perfectly placed seats in to the building, cupping the audience around a stage framed by a dramatic proscenium arch.

It is part of the magic of the Centre that reclining in those plush, purple velvet seats, you have perfect sightlines no matter where you sit in the house. That, together with the building’s remarkable acoustics and the compressed lobby that just buzzes with excitement on opening nights, makes it a special experience.

“From an audience perspective, in the house, it’s the best theatre in the city,”...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle12023530/

For the number of performers and groups I've been told that complain about this epic fail component of the theatre, I find their complaining now a bit disingenuous.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

Why should the taxpayer bail out a theatre when there's a legitimate private buyer with cash in hand?

Is a private buyer legitimate if they can only make a go of it by having property tax-free?

And what do you propose doing with the $23 million in the Coal Harbour Arts Complex fund?

[phesto]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Indeed, it is a very bad joke. Where is the $23 million that was set aside for the the Coal Harbour Arts Centre Complex fund? That would have covered the cost of buying the Centre and that lame rental car facility behind it, to give the theatre a larger backstage area.

The Budget site is zoned to allow an office tower and is likely now worth far more than $14 million...

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Is a private buyer legitimate if they can only make a go of it by having property tax-free?

Who said they'd make a go of it? I doubt they'll survive even with a tax break. I think the church is in over their heads and will be insolvent in 10 years at most.

But seriously, I don't understand the logic of your argument. You complain that churches pay no tax, but propose spending taxpayer money as the alternative. Guess what, the city isn't going to pay tax on its own property either, plus the taxpayer would be out of pocket at least $9 million. Your alternative is far worse from the taxpayer's perspective.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

Who said they'd make a go of it? I doubt they'll survive even with a tax break. I think the church is in over their heads and will be insolvent in 10 years at most.

But seriously, I don't understand the logic of your argument. You complain that churches pay no tax, but propose spending taxpayer money as the alternative. Guess what, the city isn't going to pay tax on its own property either, plus the taxpayer would be out of pocket at least $9 million. Your alternative is far worse from the taxpayer's perspective.

You either ignored or misunderstood the fact the city has $23 million set aside for what was originally supposed to be an 1,800-1,950 seat concert hall. http://concerthallcomplex.org/?page_id=2

This is the money the Bing Thom proposal for the Art Gallery concert hall is trying to access. However, The Centre has 1,800 seats and superb acoustics so why reinvent the wheel? Plus, isn't the VAG at Larwill Park proposal supposed to stimulate a cultural precinct? Why remove the theatre from that mix for a church?

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You either ignored or misunderstood the fact the city has $23 million set aside for what was originally supposed to be an 1,800-1,950 seat concert hall.

No, I assumed they are different things entirely. I assume a theatre for performance art is not the same thing as a concert hall. The concert hall society is pretty explicit in their expectations: "a new purpose-built Concert Hall". In their view, the performing music in "multi-purpose" or "converted" spaces is precisely the situation they wish to escape. Repurposing another space does not advance their situation one bit.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

No, I assumed they are different things entirely. I assume a theatre for performance art is not the same thing as a concert hall. The concert hall society is pretty explicit in their expectations: "a new purpose-built Concert Hall". In their view, the performing music in "multi-purpose" or "converted" spaces is precisely the situation they wish to escape. Repurposing another space does not advance their situation one bit.

Oh I see, so you're against spending public money to buy the theatre, but OK with spending public money to spoonfeed a brand new concert hall to the concert hall society. Gotcha, perfectly consistent.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Oh I see, so you're against spending public money to buy the theatre, but OK with spending public money to spoonfeed a brand new concert hall to the concert hall society. Gotcha, perfectly consistent.

No, I'm against spending public money on either one.

My comments were interpreting the words on the concert hall site that indicate they want a first-rate purpose-built venue (which, by the way, will surely cost more than $23 million to be done properly - probably something in the $100 million range). Apart from seating capacity, this venue and the one they want are not even in the same league.

[huenthar]

I was also hoping that the Budget site would get a non-office-tower use that could tie in with Library Square/the Centre/cultural precinct somehow.

It always looked to me like the Centre never really attracted bigger/more popular shows; they had those big banners saying "the home of the action-musical!" etc. which I don't think helped sell the venue to audiences much... If the only hitch is the loading space I wonder if someone could make a go of it expanding into the Budget site (with other uses as well) by banking on attracting more/higher calibre productions (even for instance Vegas-style stuff).

[officedweller]

I tend to think that an office tower would do a lot more to bring pedestrian traffic to the area than a cultural facility.

[spm2013]

Raise your hand if you've ever been in there.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by spm2013

Raise your hand if you've ever been in there.

This reminds me of the Waldorf panic...

[spm2013]

Yeah, we're losing out on Nutcracker once a year. Culture is doomed in Vancouver...

[red-paladin]

I've seen a play there. The most striking thing was always the badly designed stair landing in the lobby that restricts movement.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

No, I'm against spending public money on either one.

My comments were interpreting the words on the concert hall site that indicate they want a first-rate purpose-built venue (which, by the way, will surely cost more than $23 million to be done properly - probably something in the $100 million range). Apart from seating capacity, this venue and the one they want are not even in the same league.

The money's already been collected from developers etc. for that purpose, no goign back now. As to it not being "perfect", as Mick Jagger once said: You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, well you might find you get what you need.

[mr.x]

A purpose built concert hall instead of a multi-purpose performance centre? Too bad. And how exactly would that make the facility more usable?