USA's Busiest Light Rail Systems - Page 2

Wooster · #21 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 4:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

And by 2019, it might even catch Calgary.

Just wait. All we need is a Measure R2, and Monterrey wil be in our sights.

Calgary's opening its West LRT line in about 11 months, so that will boost ridership by about 40,000 right off the bat. Also in 2014, the system will move from 3 to 4 car consists, which should add about 50,000 more. APTA has Calgary's LRT currently at 275k average weekday. Not bad for a 1.25 million metro, so in a couple years it should easily reach 350k.

Wooster · #22 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 4:46 AM**

Here in Calgary we're doing a big new strategic plan for the transit system. What would you say would be some of the best cities in the US to learn from?

The plan is comprehensive, so it's looking at long term network and capital planning, service delivery, customer service, communications, governance and management, fiscal strategies and so on.

http://www.routeahead.ca/

Given Calgary's similarities with places like Denver and Salt Lake we're thinking thinking those kinds of places (perhaps Portland too), but anywhere else we should check out in person or system operators we should talk to?

Nexis4Jersey · #23 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 5:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirrus

The busway doesn't go to Oakland.

Regardless, you wouldn't get 100,000 daily riders from a light rail line to Oakland.

I'll revise that to 60,000.....after re-adding the numbers...

CyberEric · #24 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 10:07 AM**

I am assuming Boston's T is considered light rail?

Nouvellecosse · #25 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 11:15 AM**

^ Part of it. The green line uses streetcar type stock and has significant sections that run like LRT including in street (mostly in dedicated lanes I believe). Mattapan High Speed Line also uses streetcar stock but I'm not sure if it's classified as LRT.

CyberEric · #26 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 11:25 AM**

I see, so the T is considered a combination of light and heavy rail. Thanks!

JDRCRASH · #27 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 12:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooster

Calgary's opening its West LRT line in about 11 months, so that will boost ridership by about 40,000 right off the bat. Also in 2014, the system will move from 3 to 4 car consists, which should add about 50,000 more. APTA has Calgary's LRT currently at 275k average weekday. Not bad for a 1.25 million metro, so in a couple years it should easily reach 350k.

Yeah that is quite remarkable. I could only dream of seeing 25% of LA metro residents commuting via rail...

Oh well, maybe some day.

electricron · #28 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 3:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberEric

I see, so the T is considered a combination of light and heavy rail. Thanks!

I believe the Green line is considered light rail while the others are considered heavy rail.

SnyderBock · #29 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 8:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

My 2030 Projections based on future development around lines and extensions...

1. Boston - 233,300 > 290,000 (2030)
2. San Francisco - 162,400 > 215,000 (2030)
3. Los Angeles - 154,500 > 630,000 (2030)
4. Portland - 126,500 > 175,000 (2030)
5. Philadelphia - 110,100 > 190,000 (2030)
6. San Diego - 103,400 (150,000 (2030)
7. Dallas - 83,400 > 110,000 (2030)
8. Denver - 66,800 > 132,000 (2030)
9. Newark - 65,000 * > 205,000 (2030)
10. Salt Lake City - 59,100 > 102,000 (2030)
11. St. Louis - 52,300 > 147,000 (2030)
12. Phoenix - 41,300 > 115,000 (2030)
13. Houston - 36,100 > 147,000 (2030)
14. San Jose - 32,900 > 72,000 (2030)
15. Minneapolis - 30,300 > 139,000 (2030)
16. Seattle - 27,800 > 163,000 (2030)
17. Baltimore - 27,200 > 87,000 (2030)
18. Buffalo - 24,500 > 45,000 (2030)
19. Pittsburgh - 24,200 > 125,000 (2030)
20. New Orleans - 19,700 > 25,000 (2030)

This is the actual data for Denver's RTD 2030 LRT projections. These projections don't fully take into consideration TOD development around stations, or the national trend of people using transit more, at a growing rate. Notice, even the low estimate is above your estimate, in which you were attempting to fully take into consideration TOD development.

West Corridor
Vehicle Type: Light Rail
Length (miles): 12.1
Stations: 12
Parking: 646 (existing), 5,054 (new)
Capital Cost: $707M
2030 Weekday Ridership: 31,200 - 36,500
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail):
5 min (peak)/15 min (off-peak) Denver to Federal Center
15 min (peak and off-peak) Federal Center to Jefferson County

Southwest Corridor
Vehicle Type: Light Rail
Length (miles): 8.7 (existing)/2.5 (new)
Stations: 5 (existing)/2 (new)
Parking: 2,597 (existing), 1,440 (new)
Capital Cost (extension): $216.9M
2030 Weekday Ridership: 21,600 - 24,000
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail): 6 min (peak)/7.5 min (off-peak)

Southeast Corridor
Vehicle Type: Light Rail
Length (miles): 19.1 (existing)/2.3 (new)
Stations: 13 (existing)/3 (new)
Parking: 6,962 (existing), 2,520 (new)
Capital Cost (extension): $208.1M
2030 Weekday Ridership: 51,100 - 59,800
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail): 4 min (peak)/6 min (off-peak)

I-225 Corridor
Vehicle Type: Light Rail
Length (miles): 10.5
Stations: 7
Parking: 1,225 (existing), 1,800 (new)
Capital Cost: $730M
2030 Weekday Ridership: 34,200
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail): 7.5 min (peak)/10 min (off-peak)

Central Corridor
Vehicle Type: Light Rail
Length (miles): 7.1 (existing)/0.8 (new)
Stations: 18 (existing)/2 (new)
Parking: 1,685 (existing)
Capital Cost (extension): $115M*
2030 Weekday Ridership: 5,800
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail): 15 min

Denver RTD Total 2030 Projected LRT System:
Vehicle Type: Light Rail
Length (miles): 63.1
Stations: 62
Parking: 14.447
Capital Cost (extensions): $1.977B
2030 Weekday Ridership*: 143,900 - 160,300

*Doesn't fully take into consideration TOD developments or transit useage among the population, trending upwards.

Nexis4Jersey · #30 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 12:20 AM**

I was being Conservative , if i put them to high people would call them pure fantasy and could never be reached....so i put them lower. But I could redo all my projections...

Jonboy1983 · #31 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 2:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirrus

The busway doesn't go to Oakland.

Regardless, you wouldn't get 100,000 daily riders from a light rail line to Oakland.

I'd actually be willing to go with about half that. It would be considered a trunk route linking two very dense urban cores.

However, I think that if PAT were smart; that they not only build a LRT line between Downtown and Oakland but also having feeder bus lines throughout the entirety of the system, then you could easily push 125k or so for the whole T system. Of course, building an extension out to the Airport given the above would boost it up even higher...

As far as the busway is concerned, yeah it bypasses Oakland and goes by Bloomfield and right in between East Liberty and Shadyside, altimately going out to Wilkinsburg before terminating in Swissvale.

Okstate · #32 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 4:39 AM**

If Portland included its streetcar line as San Francisco includes their cable cars our number would be 138,631. Is a cable car different from a streetcar?

fflint · #33 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 5:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okstate

If Portland included its streetcar line as San Francisco includes their cable cars our number would be 138,631. Is a cable car different from a streetcar?

No, you are entirely wrong. If you had read the report, you would know two things: Portland's streetcar is included in that city's "light rail" stats, and San Francisco's cable cars are not. APTA lists cable cars as a separate mode of transportation, and San Francisco's cable cars carry 19,300 weekday riders. If we added that to SF's light rail ridership we'd get 181,700 weekday passengers on all San Francisco Municipal Railway trains.

zilfondel · #34 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 7:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fflint

No, you are entirely wrong. If you had read the report, you would know two things: Portland's streetcar is included in that city's "light rail" stats, and San Francisco's cable cars are not. APTA lists cable cars as a separate mode of transportation, and San Francisco's cable cars carry 19,300 weekday riders. If we added that to SF's light rail ridership we'd get 181,700 weekday passengers on all San Francisco Municipal Railway trains.

No, it actually isn't. Portland MAX currently has 124,000 weekday riders, and the Portland Streetcar currently has ~9,500 weekday riders. At the same time, since this doesn't improve our ranking, its kind of irrelevant.

Source: Trimet ridership report: http://trimet.org/about/performance.htm
(streetcar not included, it is not part of trimet)

Source: Streetcar ridership report:
http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/node/28

Anyways, cable cars are different from LRV's. Our streetcar and MAX both run articulated LRVs, just of a different size/make/model/capacity.

image from wikipedia

Nexis4Jersey · #35 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 8:18 AM**

They listed Phillys Streetcar network as LRT , its Streetcar network receives about 110,000 daily , while LRT only gets 5,000....101 & 102 routes.

fflint · #36 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 8:46 AM**

In its annual reports, APTA has never distinguished between streetcars and light rail when reporting LR weekday ridership--streetcars in cities from Boston to New Orleans are counted in APTA "LR" stats. Whether APTA stats match other tallies is another issue entirely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel

No, it actually isn't. Portland MAX currently has 124,000 weekday riders, and the Portland Streetcar currently has ~9,500 weekday riders. At the same time, since this doesn't improve our ranking, its kind of irrelevant.

Source: Trimet ridership report: http://trimet.org/about/performance.htm
(streetcar not included, it is not part of trimet)

Source: Streetcar ridership report:
http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/node/28

Anyways, cable cars are different from LRV's. Our streetcar and MAX both run articulated LRVs, just of a different size/make/model/capacity.

image from wikipedia

jaxg8r1 · #37 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 3:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fflint

In its annual reports, APTA has never distinguished between streetcars and light rail when reporting LR weekday ridership--streetcars in cities from Boston to New Orleans are counted in APTA "LR" stats. Whether APTA stats match other tallies is another issue entirely.

I wonder if Portland is seperated out because the city owns the streetcar, while Trimet (transit provider) owns Max LR?

McBane · #38 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 3:33 PM**

What's Philly's light rail? The Green Lines (subway surface)? I believe the Orange and Blue Lines are heavy rail.

Nexis4Jersey · #39 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 4:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

What's Philly's light rail? The Green Lines (subway surface)? I believe the Orange and Blue Lines are heavy rail.

No Subway - Surface and route 15 are streetcars , 101 & 102 are LRT.

Cirrus · #40 Posted **Mar 16, 2012, 6:42 PM**

Yes subway. Philadelphia's entire green line is light rail, including the parts of it that operate under ground. Exactly like Boston.

I think Philadelphia's purple line is also light rail, although I am not 100% sure.