What's the deal with LA Live?

[RAlossi]

I agree very passionately about the need for pet-based services and retail establishments. The statistics say it all -- most new loft dwellers are young, single urbanites. Many have dogs, cats, and other animals (children don't count). A new Petco-like store would not only provide services and goods for the already existing pets, but would take away a disincentive to owning a pet in the first place.

And, yes, we do need more dog parks in the city in general, and downtown specifically. I loved reading Villaraigosa's website about how he plans to introduce more dog parks for the residents' pets.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by bobcat

I wonder of a local company like Mattel or Disney could be persuaded to open a huge store DT.

Whoa & yikes!

It's good to dream & think big, but keep in mind that the hood where that big Toys R Us is located attracts a HUGE, HUGE number of ppl, of office workers, of tourists, or day trippers, of residents (many with lots of $$), of burbanites enjoying a day in the city.

Look at all the large office bldgs throughout midtown NYC, full of major companies & their employees, or huge hotels, often full of tourists, or big ol apt bldgs, packed with tenants. Add to that mix a large pool of burbanites who are drawn to the city the way bees are drawn to honey, & you have ppl, ppl, ppl, everywhere.

So far, there's too much about DT LA that, by comparison, is almost the extreme opposite to what's found in the hood where that Toys R Us's flagship store is located.

[bobcat]

^ Well, it's presumed that by the time this development opens up(which will be YEARS in the future) there will a significantly larger number of potential customers.

[citywatch]

However many number of potential customers are drawn to the LA Live proj in particular, I am concerned about the way the architect has configured the theaters, hotel & retail:



I mentioned this several months ago in the other thread about LA Live, but I don't know if the idea of splitting the movie theaters on the west side of the site from the restaurants & shops on the east side of the block is such a good idea. The hotel, which the diagram indicates will be sitting in the middle of the two areas, will impede flow through.

I hope this momentary lull or quiet before the LA Live proj is supposed to begin construction (late summer?) is a sign that the owner is making a lot of revisions & improvements to the plan.

[Wright Concept]

"Everytime I look at that site plan, I can't help but feel that they could have put the Movie Theater entrances right by Nokia Square and on Olympic on the Ground Floor with the ticketing lobby being a floor above and additional retail with Hotel entrance on the ground floor along Olympic with its "Main Lobby" above the theaters. So that the Hotel would have more height and really make it mixed-use.
Right now in the renderings along Olympic where the Tower is at the street wall looks very bare and blank, the exact opposite of what is needed to tie the existing Pico-Union Neighborhood with the emerging South Park together.

I could also see the extra lot(if the theater were assembled on top of the hotel) as an opportunity to lock in ESPN as a permenant site for the X games and open up the plaza a little bit for these kind of promenade open air activities, really cementing the site and revive the surrounding neighborhood and connecting the Pico-Union area to this site. Also this would provide a better tie-in and link to the Convention Center for events such as the Auto Show or Electronic Games or even the Erotica Convention for crying out loud. And then some of these events could spill out into the Nokia plaza. Just think how cool it would be to have some show-cars or custom Low-riders displayed on Nokia Plaza on the way to the Auto Show. Or even having a kiosks with video games being played.


Thankfully these are just preliminary plans.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

^ I think the issue for the developer is the fact that the multiplex is so large and thus has so much dead-wall space, they need to decide the best place to put that dead space. This is the nature of large multiplexes, and IMO it sure is better to put dead wall space around back then to have it front along Figueroa. Also, I think the multiplex patrons are more likely to be drivers, so better to put it 'round back near the parking lots and freeway, and keep the more active/pedestrian areas along the eastern edge, closer to South Park and FiDi.

Of course, an ideal design would have the multiplex somehow "in the middle" wrapped with retail, but I think that would be pretty difficult given the site they have to work with.

[Wright Concept]

Originally Posted by LongBeachUrbanist

^ I think the issue for the developer is the fact that the multiplex is so large and thus has so much dead-wall space, they need to decide the best place to put that dead space. This is the nature of large multiplexes, and IMO it sure is better to put dead wall space around back then to have it front along Figueroa. Also, I think the multiplex patrons are more likely to be drivers, so better to put it 'round back near the parking lots and freeway, and keep the more active/pedestrian areas along the eastern edge, closer to South Park and FiDi.

Of course, an ideal design would have the multiplex somehow "in the middle" wrapped with retail, but I think that would be pretty difficult given the site they have to work with.

LBU re-read my suggestion:

Everytime I look at that site plan, I can't help but feel that they could have put the Movie Theater entrances right by Nokia Square and on Olympic on the Ground Floor with the ticketing lobby being a floor above and additional retail with Hotel entrance on the ground floor along Olympic with its "Main Lobby" above the theaters. So that the Hotel would have more height and really make it mixed-use.

What I'm suggesting is to raise that Multiplex on a second level. Keep the entrance to the hotel where it is, in fact you provide an opportunity to even merge or at the very least abutt the Multiplex with the Nokia Theatre to have a grand movie opening or some kind of special showing of a Blockbuster film like Star Wars. Merging two big blank walls together.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

^ Sorry PV, I reread what you wrote, but I'm still having trouble following what you're trying to say. In your vision, would the multiplex be in the same place as it is now, only second level with entrances moved around? Or would it be east of Georgia on the same block as the hotel, sandwiched between ground-floor retail below and hotel above? How would Georgia Street fit in to the picture? And how would the noise from a rumbling multiplex cinema affect the hotel above?

[DJM19]

I think he is saying he want the multiplex to be where the hotel is now. Though, I dont think the developer wants the hotel to be right next to the freeway.

[Wright Concept]

No problem. The idea is that the entrance would be both on Olympic/Georgia and inside the Nokia Plaza creating a nice lobby with the escalators up to the Concessions and Theater level. Ticket can be located along Olympic and in Nokia Plaza on the outside of the hotel. This could mix in with the retail surrounding the Hotel. I see it as a more active version of the Bonaventure Hotel Atrium where the theater would be the middle level between the actual "Hotel" and Ground Floor Retail. The Ballrooms and convention spaces can work its way as part of the Convention Center and the Hotel itself creating a Conference Wing. The entrance to the Hotel would just be a basic reservation counter the wisks folks up to the appropriate levels of the hotel. That is all that's need anyways. Any noise and rumbling can be countered with double payned glass or installing a fountain or noise buffer if that becomes a concern.

The idea is to have the hotel sit on top of the multiplex, not move it to the side, hence adding extra height to the building.

Here's an example from Chicago.

The Embassy Suites Lakefront;.Embassy Suites Chicago
has a large 21 screen multiplex at the base of the Hotel there are separate entrances for the hotel and multiplex. And the Hotel sits on top of that.

[citywatch]

The siting of the hotel in relation to the movie theaters & the retail area, not to mention the Nokia theater, seems like a basic, glaring error to me. Whether the cineplex is on the west or east side of the block, along Fig or Olympic, or nearer to Staples or nearer to the fwy, the important thing is that the hotel shouldn't be placed in a space where it ends up being an obstacle. That's why I hope LA Live architect's diagram, although it looks quite detailed & finalized, is merely a preliminary concept.

Here's another example of why I'm cautious about the hopes & wishes for projs like LA Live & possible new retailers in DT. This is from the DT News:

With a potentially devastating hotel strike averted last month, and a pledge by city officials to redouble tourism efforts, the local hotel industry is staging a steady comeback. More surprising is the fact that Downtown is leading Los Angeles County with a double-digit surge in hotel occupancy over last year, and hospitality officials predict the strongest summer season since 2000. Compared to countywide markets, the Central City has seen the most dramatic year-over-year growth, with the occupancy level soaring since May 2004 from 56.5% to 67.4%, according to the latest data from Smith Travel Research.


This is from today's NY Times....

It can be difficult to find a hotel room in New York at any price. For Manhattan hotels in all price categories, the average occupancy rate was 89.6 percent in May (up 4.5 percent from May 2004). The average rate paid for a room was $240.23, up 12.6 percent from $213.30 in May 2004.


67.4 compared with 89.6? Sheesh, when you're starting from a way, way lower level, you better see no less than a double digit surge.

[DJM19]

Well, consider also that a lot tourist come to LA for Venice, Hollywood, and Beverly Hills, etc.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

Downtown LA has had a problem for a long time with hotel occupancy. The fact that this is changing is very encouraging. Something fundamental has changed in Downtown, people from other places (and native Angelenos as well) are seeing it with new eyes. More things are open, more tourists, cleaner streets, more residents, more transit options, more variety of hotels and restaurants, etc. DTLA is in an upward cycle, I'm real excited about where things are going.

[WesTheAngelino]

It is so unfair to compare Manhattan to anything, especially Los Angeles. Instead of posting irrelevent numbers from an incomparable location, why not some stats from a similar downtown?

[POLA]

my bad... I guess I skimmed over it thinking it was another post about poles and wires... Sorry, citywatch.

Full story at: LA Downtown News Online

[LongBeachUrbanist]

^ That's the same quote that citywatch cited four posts above.

[LAMetroGuy]

Another large scale project in downtwon is Metropolis which is kinda under the radar... here is something i found:

http://www.stonecreekllc.com/experience/project605.html

[bobcat]

^I'm actually wondering about the blocks separating LA Live and Metropolis and all the potential that area has. Right now there's a car wash, a few second rate hotels, and the Salvation Army, among other things. It's another space that can made into a Times Squaresque development and would function as an important link between LA Live and Metropolis.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by POLA

thinking it was another post about poles and wires... Sorry, citywatch.

LOL. It sounds like that issue stands out in your mind more than it does mine. However, you can say that it's indirectly related to this thread, because LA's reputation among tourists can be surprisingly bad, which in turn affects the number of ppl who want to book hotel rms here. Therefore, LA Live has been an even tougher proj to get off the ground, & the owner of the Bonaventure hotel, not exactly jammed with customers, has been a far bigger foe of it. IOW, because the hood has been economically flat for so long, the situation ends up even more dog eat dog.

BTW, DT San Diego, as is true of NY, also has way, way higher booking rates for hotels than the ones in DT LA. That town doesn't have to bend or break arms to get new hotels built. I also read some thread in another SSP forum that had an article about Portland or something like that, & the writer singled out Seattle, SF, Vancouver & SD as the towns deserving of praise on the west coast. LA wasn't included.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by LongBeachUrbanist

DTLA is in an upward cycle, I'm real excited about where things are going.

You're younger than I am, so you may not recall the past as well as I do. I'm talking about how ridiculously bad & static the situation became several yrs ago, but not in ways that you prob think I'm referring to. I'm pointing to ppl like the former director of the CRA who, believe it or not, implied that a more ambitious, aggressive effort to turn around the hood no longer was necessary or appropriate. And he made that comment back in the early 1990s (not sure if was a bit before or after the 92 riots), or well before the improvements of the recent past were even a glimmer in someone's eye.