General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[Obadno]

New Skyline pic from Reddit from this weekend

[IndyAZ]

I was up in North Peoria yesterday and noticed Aldi broke ground on their new grocery store at the SE corner of Lake Pleasant and Happy Valley. I know these were delayed a bit but looks like they are now moving forward with their entry into the AZ market.

Couldn't find much info online, but on linkedin they have store manager positions posted for four locations: Peoria, Goodyear, Chandler, and Gilbert. Not sure if those are the only 4 they are building or not, maybe its just a start.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/f...sa-1882475859/

[azsunsurfer]

Actually I noticed the South Gilbert location had broken ground the other day (near Santan Mall). The North Gilbert one has not. The only location on the east side I think is going is Papago Plaza...but the whole site is still in horizontal development.

[biggus diggus]

That's a nice photo obadno. Shaw Butte?

[exit2lef]

MetroCenter will close its doors permanently on June 30:

https://ktar.com/story/3317614/phoen...osing-june-30/

It's probably for the best. The possibility of resurrecting a 20th Century indoor mall after decades of decline is virtually non-existent. Better to demolish it and build something new that will complement the light rail terminus to be built there. That may take a while given the economic situation, though.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

MetroCenter will close its doors permanently on June 30:

https://ktar.com/story/3317614/phoen...osing-june-30/

It's probably for the best. The possibility of resurrecting a 20th Century indoor mall after decades of decline is virtually non-existent. Better to demolish it and build something new that will complement the light rail terminus to be built there. That may take a while given the economic situation, though.

That area has been in decline for 20 years. Attempts to revitalize it aren't working - too much crime, etc in the area. Why bother with extending the LR there until there's a committed effort to redevelop it? Who knows what it'll wind up to be. Its certainly even less of an attraction for the end of the line. It'd be better to invest the money in that in another segment.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by xymox

That area has been in decline for 20 years. Attempts to revitalize it aren't working - too much crime, etc in the area. Why bother with extending the LR there until there's a committed effort to redevelop it? Who knows what it'll wind up to be. Its certainly even less of an attraction for the end of the line. It'd be better to invest the money in that in another segment.

I'm sure you're not the only one thinking that. On the other hand, the MetroCenter extension provides a sort of blank slate for transit-oriented development. Even if that takes a long time to happen, with all that land, there can be a big park-and-ride and transit center with myriad bus connections. A lot will probably depend on the impact of the recession on sales tax revenues that provide local and regional funding for light rail expansion. The South Central line is already under construction, so all steps necessary will be taken to keep that going. Perhaps other projects could be postponed or cancelled if needed, but I would assume the second phase of the Capitol / I-10 West line (the part that continues west of 19th Ave) would be most vulnerable since it's farther in the future.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I'm sure you're not the only one thinking that. On the other hand, the MetroCenter extension provides a sort of blank slate for transit-oriented development. Even if that takes a long time to happen, with all that land, there can be a big park-and-ride and transit center with myriad bus connections. A lot will probably depend on the impact of the recession on sales tax revenues that provide local and regional funding for light rail expansion. The South Central line is already under construction, so all steps necessary will be taken to keep that going. Perhaps other projects could be postponed or cancelled if needed, but I would assume the second phase of the Capitol / I-10 West line (the part that continues west of 19th Ave) would be most vulnerable since it's farther in the future.

I remember going to MetroCenter to walk around and watch the folks ice skating, and then later cruising around the perimeter before that got squashed. I think there are enormous redevelopment possibilities if they seize them. The proximity to the freeway and the transit terminus give that spot incredible potential.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

I remember going to MetroCenter to walk around and watch the folks ice skating, and then later cruising around the perimeter before that got squashed. I think there are enormous redevelopment possibilities if they seize them. The proximity to the freeway and the transit terminus give that spot incredible potential.

I have many fond HS memories of that area as it was 'the' place to be up until Arrowhead Mall was built. Truly a shame to drive around it now and see what it's decayed into.

I think some other efforts to reduce crime and homelessness in the area are going to be needed for any decent development to be successful there. The 'central corridor' tried to stretch up as far as 19th and Dunlap - but that's as close as all the house flipping/remodels go - and even living there was risky. (we were robbed twice - one was a home invasion while the g/f was home taking a bath...). I understand its only gotten worse since the LR went in. This doesn't bode well for this area - some serious economic development is going to be needed along with demographics to support it. I give it another 20 years...

[biggus diggus]

I spent some time in Oklahoma City recently and we noticed how absolutely spotless the city was. They had a new streetcar, a beautiful entertainment district, and a new convention center and a really great park. I researched the park and found out it's the same size as Steele park which seems so small town and irrelevant in comparison.

For conversation sake a kid behind the counter at a coffee shop explained their sales tax program and how they pay for all of these things. A really interesting read, though pretty long:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...issortail-park

Phoenix really is shown up by Oklahoma City.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I spent some time in Oklahoma City recently and we noticed how absolutely spotless the city was. They had a new streetcar, a beautiful entertainment district, and a new convention center and a really great park. I researched the park and found out it's the same size as Steele park which seems so small town and irrelevant in comparison.

For conversation sake a kid behind the counter at a coffee shop explained their sales tax program and how they pay for all of these things. A really interesting read, though pretty long:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...issortail-park

Phoenix really is shown up by Oklahoma City.

I've never been to OKC, no reason now and none expected in the future, but from what I can gather they spent around the same amount that will go into Hance Park updates here. I'd agree its better than what we have now, which is why we're spending $100M on an upgrade here and both were designed by Hargreaves. Is seems on par with what we have happening here, not seeing how it shows is up though? Or do you mean the tax method used to get the park paid for?

[biggus diggus]

Not just the park, everything they are doing in regards to points of civic pride is a level above Phoenix. I also love the way they are paying for it.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Not just the park, everything they are doing in regards to points of civic pride is a level above Phoenix. I also love the way they are paying for it.

You are more often than not the guy defending avid NIMBY's like your buddy at Angels Trumpet.

[biggus diggus]

Do you want to partake in a discussion or start another argument? I'm not interested in the latter.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Do you want to partake in a discussion or start another argument? I'm not interested in the latter.

Lol you are the one that started a city v city discussion.

[biggus diggus]

You don't think you're being a little hyper-defensive here?

Noticing that a city you visited is doing something better than a city you live in doesn't mean it's a competition - as you state by "city v city" - it means if you're interested in this thing let's have a discussion.

You clearly aren't interested in doing anything other than arguing. As usual. Go away.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Not just the park, everything they are doing in regards to points of civic pride is a level above Phoenix. I also love the way they are paying for it.

Well, hopefully Hance Park looks just as nice when it's all done and paid for. So I'm confused as to why u think the tax method is so great as to compared with what we are doing? We have a sales tax that helped build the light rail infrastructure and many of our sports arenas. The DPI BID has helped central downtown. Roosevelt could've had a BID as well but our lawmaking idiots decided to kill it. Perhaps Roosevelt Row could've been a little bit more further along in terms of development, cleanliness, and points of civic pride.

[biggus diggus]

I truly hope Hance does look that nice when it's done.

The tax method, if you read the whole article (I applaud anyone who did), is something that they are doing which I find fairly unique. They take a penny from every purchase people make and dump it into a fund for public projects. No one has tried to use it for other purposes. Every few years the residents get to vote on a project that will be paid for, in cash, from that fund. It's not the same as "hey we want to start a fund for this specific three block stretch of road" or "we want to start a fund for light rail". It's "We're getting a piggy bank and everyone gets to add a penny at a time. When we have enough money for something cool you'll get to vote on whether you want it or not". I love the approach and find it refreshing. It's basically a fund for feel-good projects. And those feel-good projects have quite clearly elevated the quality of life for the city's residents.

It's something that people seemed very proud of.

The city leaders have made a clear decision there that they will not tolerate a less-than-presentable atmosphere. Everything was spotless, people I talked to say it's because there's a lot of pride in the city.

I found it interesting.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I truly hope Hance does look that nice when it's done.

The tax method, if you read the whole article (I applaud anyone who did), is something that they are doing which I find fairly unique. They take a penny from every purchase people make and dump it into a fund for public projects. No one has tried to use it for other purposes. Every few years the residents get to vote on a project that will be paid for, in cash, from that fund. It's not the same as "hey we want to start a fund for this specific three block stretch of road" or "we want to start a fund for light rail". It's "We're getting a piggy bank and everyone gets to add a penny at a time. When we have enough money for something cool you'll get to vote on whether you want it or not". I love the approach and find it refreshing. It's basically a fund for feel-good projects. And those feel-good projects have quite clearly elevated the quality of life for the city's residents.

It's something that people seemed very proud of.

The city leaders have made a clear decision there that they will not tolerate a less-than-presentable atmosphere. Everything was spotless, people I talked to say it's because there's a lot of pride in the city.

I found it interesting.

Thank you for the applause, as I did read it. Again, so you mean when the public was asked to vote on improving our sports facilities in the Metro Area by instituting a sales tax as well as the city of Phoenix asking the public to vote on Prop 104 to renew and increase the transportation sales tax?

The only thing "different" I see and which I like is the following: "In December, the city will ask voters to approve the largest MAPS package yet, $978 million dollars for what Holt calls “neighborhood and human needs.” This includes mental health services, homelessness, and domestic violence funding."

[biggus diggus]

In Phoenix I have always voted on "we need money for this project, do you want to chip in?"

In OKC, at least the way locals explained it to me, they vote for "do you want to continue the sales tax so we can spend money on cool things later?"