California High Speed Rail Thread

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by Crawford

None of this is true.

Real HSR would terminate in SJ, not SF, and LA is not oriented around its core. It's probably the most multinodal major metro on earth.

Being in Southern California for a few months and taking the Metrolink commuter rail that connects LA to SB, SJ, Orange County, etc, I would say that LA’s transit is somewhat centered at the downtown core via Union Station.

[jmecklenborg]

New drone footage of Central Valley construction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnV0...vNpYtK0GRGm2ys

[LAsam]

^ Wow, there's quite a bit of work being done in the Central Valley. I'm so torn by this project... on the one hand, I really do like the idea of a high speed rail network connecting California's urban center. On the other hand, I can't help but feel that this is a massive boondoggle and we're ultimately not going to receive the high speed rail network we need... just a shadow of it.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by LAsam

^ Wow, there's quite a bit of work being done in the Central Valley. I'm so torn by this project... on the one hand, I really do like the idea of a high speed rail network connecting California's urban center. On the other hand, I can't help but feel that this is a massive boondoggle and we're ultimately not going to receive the high speed rail network we need... just a shadow of it.

Completion of these aerial structures gives the project a strong visual. As someone who used to work in print journalism, I can attest to the power of a visual in attracting attention to an issue. Moreover, the public hates seeing something that is incomplete. So seeing new trains operating on new bridges out in the central valley but NOT close to the big cities will arouse jealousy and improve public support for completion of the project between LA and SF.


The other thing is that these fact-centered videos being put out by the HSR Authority are getting close to zero views. Meanwhile, shilling by the Reason Foundation, that huckster Elon Musk, etc., gets millions of views.

[Busy Bee]

That's because people are stupid. Also because fear/doubt propaganda is often viewed by people on the rabbit hole path and aren't exactly the same crowd seeking out factual postive news on youtube about the project.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

That's because people are stupid. Also because fear/doubt propaganda is often viewed by people on the rabbit hole path and aren't exactly the same crowd seeking out factual postive news on youtube about the project.

It could also be slightly due to hostile nature of those that disagree and using ad hominem instead of education and facts that you claim to have to make a point. How do you expect to have a rational and intellectual conversation by start off with “that’s because people are stupid” basically calling those that disagree with you and your opinions of transit stupid. Good luck with that.

[jtown,man]

Everyone that is against anything they like are "funded by the Kock brothers" or some other right-wing boogie man. Like, do yall realize people are individuals? Not all opposition is funded or backed by some organization. People just don't like the price tag, they don't like the timeline, they don't like the "benefits" of it, and they don't like the routes.

And instead of debating these points, all relevant, they are just STUPID.

I don't want to get too far off in the weeds here, but this is a problem with Democrats overall. If you don't believe in their particular vision, you are BAD MAN. The same thing happened to me when I was in class and challenged the Green New Deal. You would have thought I told all the kids in class their dead grandmas deserved to die earlier. I wasn't even challenging climate change, I was simply stating I think the GND wasn't actually trying to gain support by being a document that is 40% or so about everything but climate change. Like if they really wanted it passed, they could have cut all that out and tone it down a bit and it might have become a document Republicans would actually look stupid not supporting.

Anyways, sorry to go off topic. I just think its important people realize not everyone who disagrees with you are funded by some billionaires or are stupid. People have different points of view, and unless we are talking about some far-off idea, everyone usually has some point deep down in their opinions worth listening too.

[Nautica]

Well said.

[Busy Bee]

Truth be told, stupid was a bit of snarky hyperbole on my part. In the future I'll stick with unenlightened.

[LAsam]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Truth be told, stupid was a bit of snarky hyperbole on my part. In the future I'll stick with unenlightened.

With a Twin Peaks related avatar... I'll accept pretty much anything you throw out there.

[chaunceyjb]

New construction pictures up on the Flickr account: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsrcagov

[Busy Bee]

It's good to see any progress you can. That being said I wish, since it is being funded through CHSR program funding, they would show photo progress of the Caltrain electrification project. The calmod site leaves a bit to be desired with their construction updates and the photos they do have seem to have been taken at 2 in the morning.

[electricron]

Caltrain may be using CHSR funding to help finance electrification between SJ and SF - they have also received Federal funding as well. While construction is underway - they have also ordered new train sets.

FYI, CHSR has not to date. What had been ordered by California DOT to run in the San Joaquin Valley are 40 year old ex-Arrow/Comet cars from NJT. California DOT has also ordered new single level cars from Siemens - not sure where they will be used - but not one penny of CHSR money has gone to buy either of them. Good luck getting any of the cars recently purchased by California DOT to go faster than 125 mph over tracks that should be certified for 200+ mph. Hee-Haw!

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by electricron

Caltrain may be using CHSR funding to help finance electrification between SJ and SF - they have also received Federal funding as well. While construction is underway - they have also ordered new train sets.

FYI, CHSR has not to date. What had been ordered by California DOT to run in the San Joaquin Valley are 40 year old ex-Arrow/Comet cars from NJT. California DOT has also ordered new single level cars from Siemens - not sure where they will be used - but not one penny of CHSR money has gone to buy either of them. Good luck getting any of the cars recently purchased by California DOT to go faster than 125 mph over tracks that should be certified for 200+ mph. Hee-Haw!

I believe that there have never been any plans to buy HSR trains until Phase 2 through the Pacheco Pass is completed to San Jose.

It'll be sad to see conventional trains (possibly the current diesel Caltrains) on HSR Phase 1 in the central valley for 5-10 years, but that's where we're at.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by electricron

Caltrain may be using CHSR funding to help finance electrification between SJ and SF - they have also received Federal funding as well. While construction is underway - they have also ordered new train sets.

FYI, CHSR has not to date. What had been ordered by California DOT to run in the San Joaquin Valley are 40 year old ex-Arrow/Comet cars from NJT. California DOT has also ordered new single level cars from Siemens - not sure where they will be used - but not one penny of CHSR money has gone to buy either of them. Good luck getting any of the cars recently purchased by California DOT to go faster than 125 mph over tracks that should be certified for 200+ mph. Hee-Haw!

I'm not sure what the hell this has to do with anything, let alone what his has to do with my comment about Caltrain photos.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I'm not sure what the hell this has to do with anything, let alone what his has to do with my comment about Caltrain photos.

What made you think I was replying to you? Did I put any of your responses within a quote, like I did with this one, with my earlier reply?
I wanted to make an observation to add to this thread, not necessarily responding to anyone in particular, which is why that post did not include a quote.

Whether or not what is being built in the central valley is finished or not, my point was that it is not going to do any good to anyone until CHSR actually buys some HSR trains to run on it.

Caltrain, by the way, has bought new trains to run under its' new catenaries they are installing. Like two peas in a pod, they will allow each capital expense to work as intended almsot immediately.

Meanwhile, CHSR authority is apparently going to have some new tracks with catenaries above with no trains able to use them to their fullest capability. That is not something to be bragging about.

Maybe CHSR plans to use the ex-Acela HSR trains Amtrak will be retiring from the NEC soon. CHSR should be able to buy them as scrap prices - saving millions of dollars. But I have a feeling they will not.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by electricron

Whether or not what is being built in the central valley is finished or not, my point was that it is not going to do any good to anyone until CHSR actually buys some HSR trains to run on it.

Amtrak's conventional diesels operate at 110mph where the track, signaling, and grade crossings have been sufficiently upgraded. Trains like this will be free to operate at that speed on completed sections of the CAHSR and won't have to sound their horns at each grade crossing, because there won't be any grade crossings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGk2tSKCMjo

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Amtrak's conventional diesels operate at 110mph where the track, signaling, and grade crossings have been sufficiently upgraded. Trains like this will be free to operate at that speed on completed sections of the CAHSR and won't have to sound their horns at each grade crossing, because there won't be any grade crossings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGk2tSKCMjo

Having a train running at 110 mph over tracks designed for trains running twice that speed is not fully using it.
How would you feel if CDOT all of a sudden limited speed limits to 30 mph or less on every foot of freeway within the state? You do know every bit of these freeways are designed and built for vehicles traveling at least twice as fast. Would you consider that fully using taxpayers' dollars to their fullest?

How are you going to convince more taxpayers to spend even more money building the rest of the CHSR system with trains going just a little bit faster than they can today? You will not be show casing high speed 200+ mph trains anywhere - which is what I thought they were trying to build.

Imagine how successful the Panama Canal would have been if they built the locks but forgot to dig the trench between them? Or vice versa, built the trench but forgot to build the locks?

Imagine MGM spending the most money ever filming Ben Hur without the the chariot race at the end. Imagine Singing in the Rain without Gene Kelly dancing and singing in the rain. Imagine any movie without it's star. Well, the tracks are not the star of a HSR system, the HSR train is the star. It is what most riders will touch, what most rider will take photos with it in the background, what most taxpayers expect to see. Yes, they will expect to see and ride a train going 200 mph. Without that, your HSR system will be considered by everyone as a complete and utter failure!

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by electricron

Without that, your HSR system will be considered by everyone as a complete and utter failure!

Yeah if they do it it'll be a temporary situation. I don't think the public has any trouble understanding that.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Yeah if they do it it'll be a temporary situation. I don't think the public has any trouble understanding that.

I think you're giving the public too much credit here.