Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[phil235]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

It's actually fairly simple policy - it sets up a direct consistent relationship between speeding and getting fined. Other policies like requiring a live enforcer to catch a speeder complicates the situation, by adding irregularity and inconsistency, chance, discretion, judgment, possibility of bias, etc.

The evidence of effectiveness is well established - here's the bottom line from a US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention review, for example:



In Ontario, the use of speed cameras requires not only warning signs around the cameras, but signs warning they are "coming soon" for at least 90 days before they are implemented. So there really is no excuse about not knowing that one would get fined there if speeding. (Of course, getting a fine for speeding anywhere should never be a surprise, really.)



We want people to follow the speed limit* everywhere of course. In Ottawa the cameras are specifically "in certain community safety zones near schools where speeding is a risk to our most vulnerable road users, our children". i.e., where it's believed that additional, reliable, consistent enforcement is needed to achieve that.

* My beef with equating the speed limit with "safety" is that roads are often designed to safely handle driving at speeds much higher than the posted speed limit. On the one hand this makes sense because, well, we know people speed, so there should be a "buffer" between the posted limit and actual unsafe speeds.

On the other hand, if the road is designed to be safe at higher speeds - e.g. it's too wide, too regular, too monotonous etc. and induces speeding, rather than being narrow, irregular and varied to induce slowing down - then it's actually encouraging violation of the speed limit. Which is a form of entrapment, I think.

Ultimately, bottom line, speed limits are clearly posted, easy enough to just follow them. But there should be more attention to using design to achieve safety than just regulation and enforcement. The City knows all this, of course; hopefully that fine revenue will go towards making these sorts of actual fixes.

No doubt road design is the proper approach. It’s just a very long and expensive process to get there, and speed cameras are a good interim solution which have a pretty well established track record in improving safety. Given that they are only in community safety zones that are well-marked, I don’t really see the need for specific camera signage.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

Don’t we want people to slow down everywhere, not just where the cameras are?

If that is the case, we should engineer the street to match the speed limit. We have built all these very wide boulevards and then set unrealistic low speed limits.

I am not opposed to speed cameras, but if you really want people to slow down, warning signs should be in place. Only the fools get fined, but the main point is to slow traffic down. As it stands, it is looking like a revenue generation program for the city and then we install more to generate more revenue.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If that is the case, we should engineer the street to match the speed limit. We have built all these very wide boulevards and then set unrealistic low speed limits.

I am not opposed to speed cameras, but if you really want people to slow down, warning signs should be in place. Only the fools get fined, but the main point is to slow traffic down. As it stands, it is looking like a revenue generation program for the city and then we install more to generate more revenue.

I agree. If they are setting the speed limit artificially low, setting the cameras for minor speed violations and putting the cameras on arterial roads then it is more of a tax than anything else.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If that is the case, we should engineer the street to match the speed limit. We have built all these very wide boulevards and then set unrealistic low speed limits.

I am not opposed to speed cameras, but if you really want people to slow down, warning signs should be in place. Only the fools get fined, but the main point is to slow traffic down. As it stands, it is looking like a revenue generation program for the city and then we install more to generate more revenue.

I'm definitely sympathetic to that point, having gotten a ticket at the bottom of a hill on Eglinton East in Toronto, where the road is engineered for about 100 and the speed limit has been dropped to 60.

That said, if we wait for all of these roads to be re-engineered, we are looking at about 50 more years of speeding and the safety consequences of that. We definitely need an interim solution, and speed cameras seem to be the most effective. It really does nothing to reduce overall traffic speed if we have 12 cameras in the entire city with warning signs at each one. Clearly people will only slow down in those spots, and carry on as normal everywhere else. I think it's better if drivers get that idea that they can get caught in any school zone or safety zone, as that will result in a more meaningful change in behaviour. As long as that is the result, I have a hard time seeing it as a tax grab.

I think that there are some ways to alter road design more quickly (calming measures like flex posts, allowing parking etc.), so we should look at those things as well. But waiting for every road to be re-engineered is not exactly a pro-active approach.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Catenary

This is my issue with speed cameras as well. Speed limits become a policical decision. A few years ago, Hunt Club from Cahill to Conroy had the limit reduced from 80 to 60 because people felt it was too fast. There was no data to back this up, and staff recommended against it, but council voted for it anyways. Sure enough, police are out in at stretch all the time looking for people speeding, because the road feels perfectly safe at 80km/h.

I agree the road "feels" safe at 80km/hr (when you're driving), but this is a stretch where there are residential neighbourhoods on both side of Hunt Club and the crossings are quite poor for pedestrians and cyclists. Reducing the speed limit is a cheap way to try to address that, but what is really required are physical changes, especially to the intersections.

If that is the case, we should engineer the street to match the speed limit. We have built all these very wide boulevards and then set unrealistic low speed limits.

The issue is that re-engineering the streets costs money. I think the city sees this revenue as a way to accelerate road safety programs that would implement physical changes.

[rocketphish]

Ottawa's sidewalk snow-clearing gets mixed reviews this winter
One councillor says residents of his ward are dissatisfied with seasonal maintenance. But there’s already anecdotal evidence the city is upping its game during a year when the weather hasn't been as harsh as it sometimes is.

Ethan Diamandas, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Feb 18, 2021 • 36 minutes ago • 3 minute read

There’s both good and bad news about the city’s efforts to keep sidewalks and bike lanes clear of snow in Ottawa winters.

A survey released this week by Capital ward Coun. Shawn Menard suggested residents of his ward were dissatisfied with winter maintenance of sidewalks and bike lanes. Menard is calling for major improvements.

But there’s already anecdotal evidence the city is upping its game. A spokesperson for the Snow Moles, a volunteer group that reports on winter walkability in Ottawa, said sidewalks seem to be in better shape this season.

The results of Menard’s report are based on a November 2020 survey of 515 residents – mostly from the urban core. Nearly half of respondents reported suffering injuries from a slip-and-fall caused by poor winter maintenance.

Since collecting information for the survey, Menard said the situation has improved, thanks in part to increased snowplow coverage of sidewalks and a less intense winter. Still, he said he’s not completely satisfied with the current state of winter maintenance services.

“It hasn’t been adequately handled and the reason … is that the maintenance quality standards are 20 years old,” Menard said. Ottawa’s winter maintenance quality standards – which set guidelines for the appropriate levels of winter maintenance – haven’t been updated since 2003.

“Given the survey responses that we’ve had … it seems very clear that sidewalks need to be cleared at the standard of what roads are being cleared at, which is bare-pavement status,” Menard said.

The city has recognized the need to revisit the standards and a review is currently underway – with findings to be presented to city council in September.

“The clearing is actually not bad. (The city) has tweaked their system and the plowing of the sidewalks is quite good,” said Dianne Breton, community leader for the Snow Moles Old Ottawa East sector.

The Snow Moles – who have been gathering data through questionnaires – will be sharing their findings with the city this year. The top priority is to make things safer for pedestrians, especially the elderly and people who use mobility devices.

“It’s so important, particularly in this year with COVID, that people feel encouraged to go out and walk in the winter,” said Breton.

Breton said she hopes the review of the winter maintenance standards will yield constructive results. “Hopefully there will be more budget money put into snow-clearing and I think it will make a difference,” she said.

After Tuesday’s snowstorm, Bay ward Coun. Theresa Kavanagh said she saw complaints in local Facebook groups from drivers about pedestrians walking on the road because sidewalks weren’t cleared yet.

“I think they should move (snow-clearing) up in terms of priority,” Kavanagh said, but she also acknowledged it’s been a quieter winter for problems related to sidewalks, bike lanes and winter maintenance.

Kitchissippi ward Coun. Jeff Leiper said he’s seen a “sharp reduction” in complaints about sidewalks this winter.

“Staff instituted a number of operational changes that have actually led to more compliments than complaints,” Leiper said in an email.

The city has readjusted its existing resources to provide overnight coverage of sidewalks when necessary, Director of Roads and Parking Services Alain Gonthier said in an email statement.

“This allowed for staff to commence sidewalk clearing sooner during a winter event, which helped prevent snow and ice buildup, and provided a safer pedestrian transportation network,” he said.

Gonthier said the city also developed “heat maps” to help prioritize specific areas, with emphasis on school zones and long-term care homes, and purchased more ice-breaking equipment.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/ottaw...ws-this-winter

[TransitZilla]

^ I've noticed that the sidewalk clearing has been really good this year, even in my suburban neighbourhood.

In fact, the sidewalk and pathway clearing is so good that it is exposing the lower maintenance standards on local roads. Normally it would make sense that local roads are a lower priority, but in many suburban neighbourhoods, local roads (that don't have sidewalks) provide an integral part of the pedestrian network. A walking trip to school can include some excellently maintained sections on sidewalks and pathways, and then terrible sections on local roads that are the connection between the pathways.

I'd like to see the city identify key local roads that form part of the pedestrian network- perhaps using the OSTA's school walking route maps as a starting point (http://www.ottawaschoolbus.ca/helpfu...aps-by-school/). Then plow a strip along those roads with the sidewalk plows when the sidewalks and pathways are being done.

[ars]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

^ I've noticed that the sidewalk clearing has been really good this year, even in my suburban neighbourhood.

In fact, the sidewalk and pathway clearing is so good that it is exposing the lower maintenance standards on local roads. Normally it would make sense that local roads are a lower priority, but in many suburban neighbourhoods, local roads (that don't have sidewalks) provide an integral part of the pedestrian network. A walking trip to school can include some excellently maintained sections on sidewalks and pathways, and then terrible sections on local roads that are the connection between the pathways.

I'd like to see the city identify key local roads that form part of the pedestrian network- perhaps using the OSTA's school walking route maps as a starting point (http://www.ottawaschoolbus.ca/helpfu...aps-by-school/). Then plow a strip along those roads with the sidewalk plows when the sidewalks and pathways are being done.

Unfortunately haven't had the same experience with the sidewalk clearing in our neighbourhood in Riverside South. The wife and I went for a walk the day after a big snowfall and the sidewalks hadn't been cleared for atleast two days straight.

[GeoNerd]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

^ I've noticed that the sidewalk clearing has been really good this year, even in my suburban neighbourhood.

In fact, the sidewalk and pathway clearing is so good that it is exposing the lower maintenance standards on local roads. Normally it would make sense that local roads are a lower priority, but in many suburban neighbourhoods, local roads (that don't have sidewalks) provide an integral part of the pedestrian network. A walking trip to school can include some excellently maintained sections on sidewalks and pathways, and then terrible sections on local roads that are the connection between the pathways.

I'd like to see the city identify key local roads that form part of the pedestrian network- perhaps using the OSTA's school walking route maps as a starting point (http://www.ottawaschoolbus.ca/helpfu...aps-by-school/). Then plow a strip along those roads with the sidewalk plows when the sidewalks and pathways are being done.

I've also has the complete opposite experience. My street is always plowed numerous times and salted to death. Meanwhile the sidewalks remain unplowed and treacherous.

[rocketphish]

Photo radar in Ottawa's core possible after changes to provincial regulations

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Mar 03, 2021 • 1 hour ago • 2 minute read

There could be a significant expansion of photo radar in Ottawa next year after the province made tweaks to rules on warning signs, allowing the city to establish automated speed traps in the core.

The central communities haven’t been considered for photo radar because of the number and width of bilingual signs the province has required in the community safety zones.

City staff on Wednesday told councillors on the transportation committee that changes to the provincial rules will make it easier for the city to make room for the required signs.

Phil Landry, director of traffic services, said the province made the change last fall allowing the city to stack the signs on a single post, rather than mounting them side-by-side using two posts.

In urban areas, there isn’t enough room to install two posts on a strip of city property, Landry said.

The city launched the photo radar pilot project last July. There are currently eight community safety zones with speed cameras, but none in the central communities because of the sign dilemma.

Staff plan to report back to the transportation committee on the pilot project in the fall and make recommendations on the future of photo radar in Ottawa.

“Assuming committee wants to move forward with a program, I would expect we would be able to identify some sites more in the urban area that had to be precluded in the first rollout of the pilot just because we didn’t have the space on the side of the road.”

Urban councillors Shawn Menard and Jeff Leiper were happy to hear there’s an opportunity for photo radar to roll out in their wards.

“I want more,” Coun. Theresa Kavanagh said, describing the positive impact of photo radar on Bayshore Drive in her Bay ward.

Revenue from automated speed enforcement pays for road safety programs. The money pays for projects aimed at reducing serious road injuries.

Landry said there was an influx of tickets last July and August in the early weeks of the pilot project. As expected, more drivers adjusted their behaviours and the number of tickets decreased, he said.

About 47,000 tickets were generated by photo radar between July and the end of December, bringing in $2.5 million in revenue.

Staff in 2019 identified 50 locations that could have community safety zones based on traffic data and the number of children walking to schools.

However, no decisions have been made on where more photo radar sites could be established.

“At this point we haven’t made any recommendations in terms of what a new program would look like,” Landry said, adding it’s ultimately a council decision.

“Whatever recommendation we do make will be based on the data and the impacts it’s having to make our roads safer.”

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...al-regulations

[Tesladom]

More taxes disguised as Safety

[Aylmer]

In the same way that any fine for an illegal activity is a tax, I suppose. The secret to screwing City Hall out of all those ill-begotten hidden tax dollars is to... not speed. Pass it on!

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

More taxes disguised as Safety

lol.

If you are pulled over by a police officer and ticketed for speeding, would you also consider that a "tax"? This is essentially just an automated police officer.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

lol.

If you are pulled over by a police officer and ticketed for speeding, would you also consider that a "tax"? This is essentially just an automated police officer.

If I'm dinged for going 55km/h in a 25km/h school zone, then its a fine.

If I'm dinged for going 62km/h on the SJAM, then its a tax.

Furthermore.. does the money go into general government revenues? If so, by definition, it is a "tax". There is mention that it will go to "road safety issues"... but I highly doubt this fine/tax is accounted separately.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

If I'm dinged for going 55km/h in a 25km/h school zone, then its a fine.

If I'm dinged for going 62km/h on the SJAM, then its a tax.

Furthermore.. does the money go into general government revenues? If so, by definition, it is a "tax". There is mention that it will go to "road safety issues"... but I highly doubt this fine/tax is accounted separately.

I'm under the impression that these cameras don't ticket people going 2 km/h over. I'd imagine one would need to go at least 10 km/h over. That said, I doubt the City would ever confirm or deny. The point is to get people to drive the speed limit.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm under the impression that these cameras don't ticket people going 2 km/h over. I'd imagine one would need to go at least 10 km/h over. That said, I doubt the City would ever confirm or deny. The point is to get people to drive the speed limit.

Again... if it is to improve safety in a specific area (school zone, etc), then absolutely.

If it's a random camera on a wide open stretch of road, then hmmm...

Speeding is a tricky area, as I would suspect 90%+ of drivers have committed this crime. When one is pulled over for speeding by a police officer, chances are that officer will break the speed limit when driving home after work. In fact, I personally know a City Police Officer who brags that his status allows him to drive 150 km/h on the 401... i.e. OPP will pull up behind him, run his plate, wave and drive on.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

If I'm dinged for going 55km/h in a 25km/h school zone, then its a fine.

If I'm dinged for going 62km/h on the SJAM, then its a tax.

Furthermore.. does the money go into general government revenues? If so, by definition, it is a "tax". There is mention that it will go to "road safety issues"... but I highly doubt this fine/tax is accounted separately.

I'll agree there should be a "grace threshold" but that shouldn't be taken as a license to always drive 9km/hr over the limit.

Money from these fines is supposed to fund the Road Safety Action Plan.

I personally know a City Police Officer who brags that his status allows him to drive 150 km/h on the 401... i.e. OPP will pull up behind him, run his plate, wave and drive on.

Despicable behaviour all around... All the more reason to "automate" some of these jobs...

[Tesladom]

Speed limits are artificially low, heck even police cruisers routinely speed on roads... ever been followed by a cop and you slow to speed limit, they lose patience and pass you... because its too slow, even police recognize this

This has NOTHING to do with school safety either, the camera on Innes in front of Beatrice Desloges HS has been active since July, and by August there was a report that they nabbed something like 10,000 speeders... camera was operating when school wasn't even in session and also works outside of school hours.
My Father-in-law got nabbed at 72 in 60 zone, he showed me the ticket, in July. It was something like $250. That road is 4 lane arterial road, 60 is brutally slow
It is a tax grab plain & simple. This is not an automated police officer BS, this is a cash cow revenue stream that people need to stand up against

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Again... if it is to improve safety in a specific area (school zone, etc), then absolutely.

If it's a random camera on a wide open stretch of road, then hmmm...

Speeding is a tricky area, as I would suspect 90%+ of drivers have committed this crime. When one is pulled over for speeding by a police officer, chances are that officer will break the speed limit when driving home after work. In fact, I personally know a City Police Officer who brags that his status allows him to drive 150 km/h on the 401... i.e. OPP will pull up behind him, run his plate, wave and drive on.

Just because the majority break traffic laws, doesn't make it ok. I was driving in a residential neighbourhood in Orleans yesterday, and as I was approaching a stop sign, I saw 3-4 cars completely blow over the sign. Not even a rolling stop, just continue on their way at full speed (probably 10 km/h or so over the limit). It was unusual, but not surprising.

Back to the speed cameras, it doesn't sound to me like they are going to place them on wide open stretches of road like Carling or Ogilvie. Sounds like they will place them in urban areas with high pedestrian traffic. Gatineau, now they place them along wide open stretches of road like St-Raymond through the Gatineau Park stretch, with a ridiculously low speed limit (40 km/h if I remember correctly). That one is a rotating camera (moved to different spots in the city).

[Tesladom]

About 2 weeks ago there was a report from city touting a 50% reduction of accidents at dangerous intersections in 2020, and that was thanks to Red Light cameras...
Silly we all know its because traffic is also down 50% with pandemic and has nothing to do with the red light cameras... they really think we are stupid