Ontario Highways

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

The lack of a median barrier could have been addressed with a cable median barrier for much less cost.

I think the installation of the cable median could have been delivered at less than 20% of the cost than fully widening the highway to six lanes.

So, assuming a real MTO estimate of about $1 billion dollars to widen the entire highway, they could have achieved almost as safe a highway for $200 million dollars.

That would have left $800 million in funding available to improve other highways. The question then becomes, how many lives could be saved by investing $800 million on another highway corridor vs. the marginal safety improvement by investing an additional $800 million dollars on a marginal safety improvement vs. the cable median barrier.

There is a reasons there are no other barriers besides the Jersey or Ontario Tall Wall being used.

[Dengler Avenue]

These cables have proven to prevent head-on collisions on the 401 through Carnage Valley, though. I think the main reason to widen 401 from 4 to 6 lanes is that MTO assumes that Gordie Howe Bridge will send loads of trucks onto the 401 and that it may even have the effect of diverting those that are currently using the Blue Water Bridge in Sarnia.

Imagine this:
You are passing on the left lane, with cars behind you too. All of a sudden, a truck from the right cuts you off because it needs to pass the slow poke in front too. You have to slam your brake from 120 to 105. The domino effect means that the last car in the line will basically be stopping. Now, imagine it happening every 5 minutes. That was my experience driving on I-94 the moment I crossed from Illinois into Wisconsin (though funny enough, this was also the time when I got to see trucks going 110 or even 120 km/h when I was past Madison, WI)...

Also, granted, there are (or should be) other priorities, but MTO seems to never sit well with the idea of a clogged 401. It's also frustrating that the section through C-K is constantly reduced to 2 lanes for construction or sometimes straight up closed...

[Djeffery]

The cable barriers don't stop trucks from crossing, and that has been the main issue. And as DA rightfully points out, when the new bridge opens, a ton more traffic is going to be using this part of the highway. Almost every one of my cross border trucking friends uses Bluewater now and will definitely be using the GH when done.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

There is a reasons there are no other barriers besides the Jersey or Ontario Tall Wall being used.

There are literally thousands of miles of US interstate that is exactly the same as the 401 through Chatham-Kent that use cable median barriers.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The cable barriers don't stop trucks from crossing, and that has been the main issue. And as DA rightfully points out, when the new bridge opens, a ton more traffic is going to be using this part of the highway. Almost every one of my cross border trucking friends uses Bluewater now and will definitely be using the GH when done.

During the winter of 2018 and 19 the existing cable median barriers were struck approximately 30 times. They fully stopped all but one vehicle.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

During the winter of 2018 and 19 the existing cable median barriers were struck approximately 30 times. They fully stopped all but one vehicle.

Those were my thoughts too. I knew that the cables worked because I checked C-K news every now and then. I've seen pictures where the cables served exactly its purpose: not letting the truck go past the median.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

During the winter of 2018 and 19 the existing cable median barriers were struck approximately 30 times. They fully stopped all but one vehicle.

Cool. I guess they've been wasting money all these years on walls because of that short bit of data.

Originally Posted by sonysnob

There are literally thousands of miles of US interstate that is exactly the same as the 401 through Chatham-Kent that use cable median barriers.

Probably not a lot that also have the same narrow grass strip median, most I've seen in the US have been quite wide, and also carry the same type of traffic as the 401.

[Dengler Avenue]

It’s not exactly a waste to do walls. There are also studies suggesting that cable median requires some left shoulder in order to be effective because, upon contact by a vehicle, the cables will stretch towards the oncoming lane(s). In fact, experts even advised against installing those on the super-2 section of A-50 in Québec because there’s barely any space of the left hand side of any travel lane. (That super-2 runs between Gatineau and the northern suburbs of Montreal and see lots of traffic and bad head-on crashes. Select sections are proper freeway though.)

Anyway, I’m happy to see the success of cable median. Time to implement those on 407ETR from York Durham Line to Brock Road. Have you guys driven on that stretch since they finished 6-laning there? I’m kind of scared to drive on it because even with the depressed paved gravel median, it still feels like an undivided 6-lane high-speed roadway. 412 and some part of 407 (provincially owned) can feel like an undivided 4-lane speedway sometimes too. Maybe once 6-laning 401 is done, MTO recycles the cables for those problematic stretches (obviously the ETR portion excepted).

There was a head-on collision on 407 through Whitby which resulted in a fatality some time last year. Sgt. Kerry Schmidt didn't seem to have specified why one of the vehicles crossed over the median though.

[Djeffery]

It's been a year since I've been down the 407 that far. I do recall noticing how easy the median looked to cross (like if there was an accident and my side was blocked, it looked easy enough to drive through the median and go back the other way. I'm sure it's deceiving enough that some people have tried and found out it isn't exactly that easy lol). But I wasn't bothered by the width of it, because the width of the London to Woodstock stretch of the 401 is still etched in my mind. I remember after they paved the left shoulders when it was still 2 lanes each way, it looked like you could put your left wheels on one side of it, and your right wheels on the other side and drive with the median under you.

That 407 median looked wide enough that if you spun out on one side, the slope of the median would direct you back into the middle of the ditch before going all the way over to the other side. Although it also did look like it would be easy enough for some idiot rocketing along, drop a wheel off the shoulder and just go diagonal across to the other side with no issue either.

[Dengler Avenue]

Well in the case of a wheel flying off a car then crossing the median, even the tall wall won't help...

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Well in the case of a wheel flying off a car then crossing the median, even the tall wall won't help...

I'm not talking about a wheel separating from the car, I'm talking about the wheel going off the pavement onto the gravel and the guy losing control of the car. Although I have seen wheel separations that the wall stopped it, but that was just luck on when it bounced.

[Dengler Avenue]

Fair enough. I can see how people can go off the pavement onto the gravel then lose control. Definitely not fun when everyone else is going fast. Speaking of that, it happened to me once but that was on a 2-lane road, namely Oil Springs Line near Highway 79. Needless to say, I freaked out. Had there been a car coming in the opposite direction, it would have been a nasty scene...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Well in the case of a wheel flying off a car then crossing the median, even the tall wall won't help...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_O...hway_401_crash

Would you feel a cable barrier would have prevented this? It is the accident that gave the area the nickname of "carnage alley"

[Dengler Avenue]

Although no vehicles crossed the median, there were collisions in both directions. 87 vehicles were involved, many burnt and destroyed.

Short answer, no. Stupid weather detector malfunction. Unfortunately, I knew that I would be the kind of person who wouldn’t stop and pull over for the fog to go away...

401 through SWO is really susceptible to bad weather I’ve gotta say. Time to widen the ROW and plant trees along the way? We always need to watch out for wild animals anyway.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://twitter.com/511ontario/statu...553662468?s=21

Lane 1 (innermost or outermost?) on 400N at King City will be closed long term due to sinkhole evaluation.

What’s going on? First 401E through Oshawa, now this. It’s no longer just happening in NEO (referring to 17 through the Park and 11 around Temagami).

[Dengler Avenue]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/driver-in...-427-1.4765439

In Ontario, dumbness knows no bounds...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/driver-in...-427-1.4765439

In Ontario, dumbness knows no bounds...

Thump, Thump... Time to wash my truck again.

[Dengler Avenue]

More:
https://twitter.com/401_da/status/12...774899201?s=21
This one I don’t know the full story. I hope OPP investigates.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

More:
https://twitter.com/401_da/status/12...774899201?s=21
This one I don’t know the full story. I hope OPP investigates.

I respect the truck driver. Tired of idiots who mess with snowplows.

[Dengler Avenue]

Update: Both drivers were identified and the trunk driver didn’t know what happened. He had to pull over and run back to the highway to attend the sedan. None were seriously injured thankfully.
https://www.cp24.com/news/driver-of-...-opp-1.4768002