Statistics Canada Reports II

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Quebec Anglos are the perfect boogeyman for Quebec nationalists.

You mean like Québec nationalist are to English Canada?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

You mean like Québec nationalist are to English Canada?

yeah, maybe. So what you are implying is that it is justified, either way?

seems toxic to me.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

seems toxic to me.

Toxic, or ToxiK???

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

'cept maybe Quebec anglos (enemies of Quebec, I have been told), unless they have a Brian Mulroneyian command of the language, or jump on board the sovereignty train without any reservations.

Quebec Anglos are the perfect boogeyman for Quebec nationalists. Don't pay any attention to those Americans behind the curtain.

Have to say I've had more than one immigrant ask me why so.many Anglo-Quebecers have trouble fitting in when they as a community have been in Québec for centuries.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Have to say I've had more than one immigrant ask me why so.many Anglo-Quebecers have trouble fitting in when they as a community have been in Québec for centuries.

But, that's the thing, they have been there for centuries, and, therefore they feel entrenched. They feel their culture in Quebec is no less valid than the Quebecois culture. New immigrants however know what they are getting into.

The largest lottery prize in Atlantic Canadian history ($36M) was claimed the other day by an Acadian crab fisherman from Pokemouche. He was completely unilingual French speaking and would not do any interviews with the assembled media (mostly anglophone). He had the luxury of living his life entirely en francaise hors Quebec. This is his right. The same right no longer exists in Quebec for anglo Quebecers. Is this right?

I know the argument will be that NB is an officially bilingual province, while Quebec is officially unilingual francophone, and that this is the reason why, but, these rules are just legal constructs. It doesn't take away from the fact that anglophone communities have existed in Quebec for 250 years or so.

Surely this counts for something? Quebec is the only province in the federation where linguistic rights are actively being removed.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Have to say I've had more than one immigrant ask me why so.many Anglo-Quebecers have trouble fitting in when they as a community have been in Québec for centuries.

You have to want to integrate. When you feel superior you will never integrate to what you think is an inferior culture. A lot of immigrants are starting to teach their kids these attitudes as well.

[Laceoflight]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

He had the luxury of living his life entirely en francaise hors Quebec. This is his right. The same right no longer exists in Quebec for anglo Quebecers. Is this right?

Vous êtes de mauvaise foi. Anglo-quebecers have their own schoolboards all accross the province, their own hospitals in Montreal and some regional hospitals too, they have 3 public-funded universities (which are great and not just some cardboard roulottes on the side of the highway), they have the possibility to communicate with any government instance in the language of their choice, they also live in municipalities with bilingual status and therefore can live their civic life in their own language. Plus, they represent a critical mass in the province metropolis, they thrive in business, arts and culture and many are recognized worldwide for their art or entrepreneurial success. Most of them are not familiar with the french canadian culture, don't consumate it, don't participate in it. They stay aside and do their own thing in their own bubble that we gladly participate to keep alive as french canadians for the sake of peace.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

He had the luxury of living his life entirely en francaise hors Quebec. This is his right. The same right no longer exists in Quebec for anglo Quebecers. Is this right?

This is a moot point though, since in most of Canada it's impossible to live in French only.

Anglo Quebecers are a spoiled bunch, and the loud preachy minority makes it hard for those bi/trilingual Anlgophones who want to integrate with Quebec society. For many especially in the younger generations, integration is the preferred choice over the idea of moving to Ontario, which just isn't appealing.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

He had the luxury of living his life entirely en francaise hors Quebec. This is his right. The same right no longer exists in Quebec for anglo Quebecers. Is this right?

That's absolutely not true. If it's possible to live entirely in French outside Quebec then by those standards it's also possible (and even easier) to live in English in Quebec, and if it's not possible to live entirely in English in Quebec (a bar anyone is free to set, I guess) then it's definitely impossible to live entirely in French anywhere in the 9 other provinces -- you'll need English.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

You have to want to integrate. When you feel superior you will never integrate to what you think is an inferior culture. A lot of immigrants are starting to teach their kids these attitudes as well.

Well, "they" did win the war, didn't they?

[lio45]

Case in point: an unilingual Angryphone in Montreal winning $36M would have a bunch of local media, from traditional newspaper to radio/TV to online, showing up at his doorstep in his language for him to give unilingual interviews to! Consider yourself owned

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

Case in point: an unilingual Angryphone in Montreal winning $36M would have a bunch of local media, from traditional newspaper to radio/TV to online, showing up at his doorstep in his language for him to give unilingual interviews to! Consider yourself owned

Well, it could be that he just didn't want to give any interviews to anyone, and used the fact he was a unilingual francophone as an excuse. I'm sure SRC was there as well as Acadie Nouvelle, and probably a number of the half dozen francophone radio stations in Moncton (where he picked up his prize).

He was probably shy.........

[craner]

Originally Posted by Laceoflight

Vous êtes de mauvaise foi. Anglo-quebecers have their own schoolboards all accross the province, their own hospitals in Montreal and some regional hospitals too, they have 3 public-funded universities (which are great and not just some cardboard roulottes on the side of the highway), they have the possibility to communicate with any government instance in the language of their choice, they also live in municipalities with bilingual status and therefore can live their civic life in their own language. Plus, they represent a critical mass in the province metropolis, they thrive in business, arts and culture and many are recognized worldwide for their art or entrepreneurial success. Most of them are not familiar with the french canadian culture, don't consumate it, don't participate in it. They stay aside and do their own thing in their own bubble that we gladly participate to keep alive as french canadians for the sake of peace.

Just curious - I know McGill - what are the other two ?

[Acajack]

To be perfectly honest, I don't actually find that British-origin Anglo-Quebecers have a worse attitude than more newly minted anglos here that are of Italian, Greek, Ashkenazi or even assimilated French Canadian origins. It varies a lot from person to person and even someone who got off the plane from Chennai or Abuja in 2014 can be a vocal angryphone activist spouting rhetoric about the historic right to use English here for everything, all the time.

It's not really ethnic. It's linguistic and political.

[harls]

Originally Posted by craner

Just curious - I know McGill - what are the other two ?

Bishop's and Concordia.

[craner]

Thanks harls.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, it could be that he just didn't want to give any interviews to anyone, and used the fact he was a unilingual francophone as an excuse. I'm sure SRC was there as well as Acadie Nouvelle, and probably a number of the half dozen francophone radio stations in Moncton (where he picked up his prize).

He was probably shy.........

Plenty of good reasons to avoid the spotlight in his case. Unless he wanted to deliver a message to the widest possible audience ("I'm making ten million available to local venture capitalists, bring me your proposals") makes sense to refuse interviews, regardless of language!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

You have to want to integrate. When you feel superior you will never integrate to what you think is an inferior culture. A lot of immigrants are starting to teach their kids these attitudes as well.

Yes, you do have to "want" to integrate.

For anglophone Quebecers though, it probably isn't because they "feel superior." This might have been true 50 years ago at the time of the apocryphal fat anglophone store clerk in the downtown Montreal Eaton's store, but not any more.

Anglophone Quebecers probably feel attached to the anglophone culture of greater North America more than anything else. The francophone culture of Quebec probably feels more "niche" to them. By saying this though, I do not mean that they do not appreciate the French culture of Quebec. I'm sure they really like how this helps to define their environment and enhances their cultural experiences. The siren sound of anglophone greater North America however means that they will never be fully Quebecois. Did Brian Mulroney consider himself a Quebecer or a Quebecois? Honest question. I don't know the answer. At most, I imagine he considered himself a blend.

At least most young Quebecers are learning enough French to get along in a primarily francophone society. Some Quebecers are toying with assimilation, especially if they have a francophone spouse.

My anglophone nephew, who moved to Quebec from Calgary to look after his ailing parents has decided to stay on in the townships even after his parents passed away. He still works remotely for the city of Calgary. He is making a concerted effort to improve his French. Many anglophone Quebecers are at least trying to make an effort. Not all are "angryphones" as you guys like to call them. They just want some protections for their community, and to be treated with respect.

[Acajack]

Brian Mulroney most definitely considered himself Québécois and the sentiment was returned as everyone considered him as such.

Though Molson is probably right that a full-scale Mulroneyesque embracing of the identity isn't in the cards for a lot of Québec anglos.

[someone123]

I've met some Montreal Anglos who almost seemed to take pride in learning little French and getting along without it. It seems difficult to relate to as a perspective. Doesn't a lack of French limit your opportunities if you live in Quebec, even in Montreal? And it must be pretty helpful professionally in Quebec to be fully bilingual.

This attitude seems very rare among Francophones in English-speaking provinces. Some may be resentful of English (rarely) or proud of French but they almost all speak English quite well.