Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[Jay31]

Originally Posted by rdaner

I am wondering if the arrival of rail transit will affect the airport? I imagine that it will be great for employees as it will provide an alternative option.

I think it'll get used far more than most naysayers anticipate....especially once the stage 2 east/west extensions are completed to connect line 2. Obviously employees will use it, but if the connections are reliable, it will also be a more obvious "budget" option for getting to the airport from most of the city. I can say as a frequent traveller that I am far more likely to take public transit if there's a train, because it is more likely to be reliably on time. I know Ottawa's LRT has a bad reputation for this...but most of the time it's still pretty good and far better than any bus line.

The main challenge I could see is that Ottawa's airport tends to have a fair bit of very early and very late traffic - if you're connecting, you're probably leaving on an early morning flight, and are often returning on a very late one. Many sun destination flights also depart at 6am. I suspect for the 4am and 2am rushes, the LRT will not be an option.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Jay31

I think it'll get used far more than most naysayers anticipate....especially once the stage 2 east/west extensions are completed to connect line 2. Obviously employees will use it, but if the connections are reliable, it will also be a more obvious "budget" option for getting to the airport from most of the city. I can say as a frequent traveller that I am far more likely to take public transit if there's a train, because it is more likely to be reliably on time. I know Ottawa's LRT has a bad reputation for this...but most of the time it's still pretty good and far better than any bus line.

The main challenge I could see is that Ottawa's airport tends to have a fair bit of very early and very late traffic - if you're connecting, you're probably leaving on an early morning flight, and are often returning on a very late one. Many sun destination flights also depart at 6am. I suspect for the 4am and 2am rushes, the LRT will not be an option.

Sun destinations those people will do what they normally have always done. Drive and Park. Its dominated by couples and families. Car will just make the most sense for that group.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Jay31

I think it'll get used far more than most naysayers anticipate....especially once the stage 2 east/west extensions are completed to connect line 2. Obviously employees will use it, but if the connections are reliable, it will also be a more obvious "budget" option for getting to the airport from most of the city. I can say as a frequent traveller that I am far more likely to take public transit if there's a train, because it is more likely to be reliably on time. I know Ottawa's LRT has a bad reputation for this...but most of the time it's still pretty good and far better than any bus line.

The main challenge I could see is that Ottawa's airport tends to have a fair bit of very early and very late traffic - if you're connecting, you're probably leaving on an early morning flight, and are often returning on a very late one. Many sun destination flights also depart at 6am. I suspect for the 4am and 2am rushes, the LRT will not be an option.

Maybe I’m mistaken but I’m pretty sure the 97 bus will continue to operate the overnight hours from about 00:30-06:00.

Today’s departure count: 78, including 11 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 0

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Maybe I’m mistaken but I’m pretty sure the 97 bus will continue to operate the overnight hours from about 00:30-06:00.

Today’s departure count: 78, including 11 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 0

I've taken it lots at 4 am ish. It's very empty of non employees.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 62, including 10 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 2

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by hehehe

With regard to LON, I wouldn't be surprised to see WS hop onto YOW-LGW as was rumoured pre covid, especially with their return to eastern Canada transatlantic flying.

I'd rather not have WS come back here taking up space. AC and WestJet dropped Ottawa as fast as they could with no signs of life to revive their prior services or expand anything. They can keep their hubs to themselves. Porter+AT or someone else (KLM, BA) would be better. Porter joining SkyTeam would be huge if KLM expanded services to bring Amsterdam here. Or Virgin providing direct to Ottawa (which would be their first direct route into Canada) due to their partnership with KLM/AF.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

I'd rather not have WS come back here taking up space. AC and WestJet dropped Ottawa as fast as they could with no signs of life to revive their prior services or expand anything. They can keep their hubs to themselves. Porter+AT or someone else (KLM, BA) would be better. Porter joining SkyTeam would be huge if KLM expanded services to bring Amsterdam here. Or Virgin providing direct to Ottawa (which would be their first direct route into Canada) due to their partnership with KLM/AF.

KLM Won't because they are AF. Doesn't make sense.
BA likley won't. They have never done great in Canada. And pulling some US routes.

But really for Ottawa the most realistic options are AC to London or AC/LH (or their discount brands like Eurowings) to Frankfurt. Or WS putting up a 737 Max to Gatwick (although likley not a big chance).

AT is struggling financially, so doubt they push new Europe cities outside of what they already do.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 62, including 10 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 2

Sunwing winding down for the season. Last northbound of the season for PVR yesterday, and looks like CCC and CYO as well today.

No YOW-YHZ flights on Porter today as tomorrow flips to the E2s on that route. Still a pair of YHZ-YOW flights on the Dash-8 today, though. I believe that brings us to 12 daily E2 flights.

AC is also adding a second YHZ flight on Monday, operated by Jazz in addition to the current one operated by PAL. Today is also the last day of CRJ200 service scheduled, as tomorrow EWR and DCA switch back to the CR9. We'll see if it sticks this time or if the 200s make another return from the dead.

[Alexcaban]

AT = Royal Air Maroc

TS = Air Transat

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

KLM Won't because they are AF. Doesn't make sense.
BA likley won't. They have never done great in Canada. And pulling some US routes.

But really for Ottawa the most realistic options are AC to London or AC/LH (or their discount brands like Eurowings) to Frankfurt. Or WS putting up a 737 Max to Gatwick (although likley not a big chance).

AT is struggling financially, so doubt they push new Europe cities outside of what they already do.

Maybe if KLM is planning on dropping something in AMS and they want to have a go at YOW-AMS instead of upping AF to more than daily.

Also, if it's YOW-LHR on BA is viable, why not? Not only would they steal this specific market, but it would also give access to all of BA's network. I can see it stimulating demand more than anything (not that it needs to be). Certainly an upgrade in comparison to sub-par AC and their XLRs.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Maybe if KLM is planning on dropping something in AMS and they want to have a go at YOW-AMS instead of upping AF to more than daily.

Going double daily is usually preferable to a new service for any airline group. The only way this math would change is if there is sufficient demand to justify YOW-AMS demand, both for Amsterdam as a city and KLM's network from AMS. I can't see Ottawa having that demand.

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Also, if it's YOW-LHR on BA is viable, why not? Not only would they steal this specific market, but it would also give access to all of BA's network. I can see it stimulating demand more than anything (not that it needs to be). Certainly an upgrade in comparison to sub-par AC and their XLRs.

These LHR slots are quite valuable. As are those widebodies at BA, which tend to be both larger and more premium heavy. There's not a lot that I can see BA trading for YOW. If there's an IAG carrier that could serve YOW, it will probably be EI (Aer Lingus).

Also, with the change of government coming, likely to impose substantial austerity both on government itself and on contractors in Ottawa, it's probably not wise for foreign airlines to really bet on Ottawa right now.

We'll get something to the British Isles eventually. Will be interesting to see if we get AC to LHR first or EI to DUB.

[YOWflier]

BA seems to operate some marginal 788 routes. Those are the ones YOW AA needs to attack. Not holding my breath but especially with a theoretical Porter tie up it could work very well.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

BA seems to operate some marginal 788 routes. Those are the ones YOW AA needs to attack. Not holding my breath but especially with a theoretical Porter tie up it could work very well.

The Porter tie up is pointless at YOW from the BA perspective. They can get feed from Porter and a larger passenger shed at YYZ.

BA may operate some marginal routes with their 788s. But they probably maintain them because of a combination of sunk costs (from startup) and flexibility in the schedule (including swing capacity). YOW would lose on those areas.

Post XLR, I don't expect YOW to see many (if any) new widebody routes. The startup and scaling up costs are much lower with the XLR over any widebody. I really hope AF gets some XLRs. I'm worried AC will drive them out with service to LHR, FRA, MUC and CDG, using XLRs.

[YOWflier]

Debatable points. Anyway, I don’t think most people would care about aircraft size and airline as long as we have the routes. In the meantime we’ve got about 2 years before AC has XLRs to deploy to see if anyone jumps on London.

[rdaner]

I wonder if an Icelandic airline would do well from Ottawa? The GTHA now has two airports with Reyjavik flights.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The Porter tie up is pointless at YOW from the BA perspective. They can get feed from Porter and a larger passenger shed at YYZ.

BA may operate some marginal routes with their 788s. But they probably maintain them because of a combination of sunk costs (from startup) and flexibility in the schedule (including swing capacity). YOW would lose on those areas.

Post XLR, I don't expect YOW to see many (if any) new widebody routes. The startup and scaling up costs are much lower with the XLR over any widebody. I really hope AF gets some XLRs. I'm worried AC will drive them out with service to LHR, FRA, MUC and CDG, using XLRs.

I very much doubt we’re getting more than LHR and FRA. Remember we are just a mere spoke in their system. Also, AC on a YOW-CDG route is no match for AF.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I very much doubt we’re getting more than LHR and FRA. Remember we are just a mere spoke in their system. Also, AC on a YOW-CDG route is no match for AF.

LHR and FRA alone could be enough to undermine the case for AF to CDG. With XLRs, AC could probably go daily to both LHR and FRA. And in both those they can even offer better re-routing for Irrops. I suspect London has enough O/D demand and LHR and FRA have enough connection options combined to beat out AF at CDG.

Originally Posted by YOWflier

Debatable points. Anyway, I don’t think most people would care about aircraft size and airline as long as we have the routes. In the meantime we’ve got about 2 years before AC has XLRs to deploy to see if anyone jumps on London.

The only airline that can really beat AC and LH, in my books, would be BA out of LHR. Good onward network to Europe, the Middle East and India. And even has Royal Air Maroc as a Oneworld partner for some of the French speaking immigrants we get here from Morocco.

[RomanR27]

AC342/345 upgauged to a B789 today. Good chance to see two B789s on the ground at the same time before the swap to an A359 next week on AF.

Some more changes effective today I forgot to mention in my post yesterday.

-The third IAD flight on UA begins today.

-Some minor schedule changes from Porter, the YVR flight moves back 40 minutes (it's chronically late so might just be some buffer for the inbound flight from MCO)

-YEG moves back from 19:20 to 20:55 and gets a new flight number

-YYC moves from a nice 18:20 departure to a late 21:00 departure. All the eastbound flight times are unchanged.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 68, including 9 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 3

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

LHR and FRA alone could be enough to undermine the case for AF to CDG. With XLRs, AC could probably go daily to both LHR and FRA. And in both those they can even offer better re-routing for Irrops. I suspect London has enough O/D demand and LHR and FRA have enough connection options combined to beat out AF at CDG.

I mean for sure I can see this being a bit disruptive to AF but not enough to take them out. I’m sure they can coexist with a downgrade from an a350 to a daily 789. For me personally, AF is still far more attractive for beyond CDG destinations. But that’s just me. I still think YOW can support multiple daily European departures. My preference is more foreign carriers over AC. BA, KLM, and even EI as you mentioned would all be great options. Also, Icelandair to me is a no brainer with PD hubbing here. AF has been increasing capacity at an incredible pace so the demand from YOW to Europe (and avoiding YYZ and YUL) is definitely there.