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  #1021  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 8:03 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
I’m a fan of the hatchback. 90% of the utility of an SUV without the terrible driving dynamics and gas mileage. I don’t understand people’s obsession with large vehicles.
Same. I especially hate the "we had one kid, now we need a full size SUV". No... you don't.
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  #1022  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Same. I especially hate the "we had one kid, now we need a full size SUV". No... you don't.
Drives me crazy and if I had a dollar...
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  #1023  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 8:11 PM
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
Maybe, although I would guess that the pickup trucks/SUVs are doling out more damage than they receive.
Probable.

Just so it's clear, I'm way too much of a "respects the rules" guy to ever consider parking with a large vehicle in a "small car only" spot.

I just find it very unclear if the message is "you can and will be ticketed if our Enforcer passes and sees anything larger than a small car in there" or "don't complain to us if you get dents, you were expressly warned we didn't recommend this spot for anything larger than a small car".

Reason I'm leaning towards the latter is, you just know there would be debate in court over what a "small" car is. Can I park there in an early 2000s Honda Accord? Or a Chevy Malibu?

Now, if it instead said "Anything in a Vehicle Size Class of more than 3115 liters of interior volume according to the EPA, caught in this parking spot, will be ticketed", that would be clear
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  #1024  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:00 PM
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The best car for city driving is the 2016 Smart Fortwo: tiny turning circle, easy to see out of and can easily find parking. I'm considering buying one for my summer car and keeping the beater (it's a small hatchback) for winters.
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  #1025  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
The North American truck situation has kind of an arms race feel to it; my sister just got some ridiculous SUV because she felt surrounded by too many others in traffic.
this is exactly what I am talking about. Most people driving today's pickup trucks have very little need for such a hulking vehicle*. I can't see when there is a truck ahead/behind me, let alone when trying to make a left-hand turn. These things are so high, so opaque, and so wide that they block the line of sight. And why do they have to be so fucking loud. And so fucking ugly.

*20 years ago, when I was in a job that required me to access a truck (I had a fugly ford ranger), the trucks on the road were far smaller/compact. What the hell has changed over the past 20 years? An epidemic of Douchebaggery and/or dick shrinkage?
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  #1026  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:11 PM
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In the old days (80s) we drove rear drive pickup trucks in the winter loaded with a few sandbags for traction. Lots of snow, some hilly conditions and we survived. It was those '70s rear drive American sedans that sucked in winter weather.

---

At first I was turned off by the new GMC heavy duty trucks but the design is growing on me. The next gen F150 has a nice interior but is too conservative otherwise. The RAM lightduty overall is the best current truck design. I also like the Tacoma and Colorado. Ranger again is very vanilla. My favorite pickup truck design remains the Nissan Hardbody. I was admiring a new Jeep Gladiator parked in a narrow laneway in Kensington Market today.

The most interesting 4x4 to catch my eye: yesterday near High Park I spotted an early 1990s Daihatsu Rocky. I want!
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  #1027  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:12 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Same. I especially hate the "we had one kid, now we need a full size SUV". No... you don't.
But having kids tends to go hand in hand with buying a house, hauling big purchases and yard stuff, going on family trips, etc. You might only need all the cargo room 10 times a year but you're grateful when you have it.
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  #1028  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post

*20 years ago, when I was in a job that required me to access a truck (I had a fugly ford ranger), the trucks on the road were far smaller/compact. What the hell has changed over the past 20 years? An epidemic of Douchebaggery and/or dick shrinkage?
What's changed is that trucks have gone from being utility vehicles to luxury liners.
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  #1029  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:39 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
But having kids tends to go hand in hand with buying a house, hauling big purchases and yard stuff, going on family trips, etc. You might only need all the cargo room 10 times a year but you're grateful when you have it.
My family used a Yaris for my kid's youngest years.

Having a daily driver you only "really need" 10 times a year or less is ridiculous.
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  #1030  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
My family used a Yaris for my kid's youngest years.

Having a daily driver you only "really need" 10 times a year or less is ridiculous.
You might only max out the cargo room 10 times a year. But even when it isn't full, it still has other benefits. Being more sure-footed on the highway is one of them. I have driven down highways in winter conditions in my SUV that I might not have even attempted in my old subcompact.

I personally think it makes much more sense to buy a vehicle with a practical application as compared to a high powered sports car when the fastest you are allowed to go in this province is 110 km/h whether you're in a 98 Sunfire or a Ferrari, but to each their own.
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  #1031  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 9:55 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
You might only max out the cargo room 10 times a year. But even when it isn't full, it still has other benefits. Being more sure-footed on the highway is one of them. I have driven down highways in winter conditions in my SUV that I might not have even attempted in my old subcompact.

I personally think it makes much more sense to buy a vehicle with a practical application as compared to a high powered sports car when the fastest you are allowed to go in this province is 110 km/h whether you're in a 98 Sunfire or a Ferrari, but to each their own.
Of course you can justify it and everybody's situation is different.

My point is that this is more about "keeping up with the Jones'" and image, vs. actual practical usage. Combined with the fact that people seem to have no financial sense or understanding how much more they are spending on these vehicles.

Then they rant about ICBC and insurance, gas prices, etc.
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  #1032  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 10:18 PM
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Did you have winter tires on your old subcompact? A car with proper winter tires is just as easy to drive as an SUV in typical conditions. You can get AWD in cars too - my old Audi S5 wouldn't get stuck anywhere.
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Last edited by theman23; Oct 14, 2020 at 10:37 PM.
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  #1033  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 11:39 PM
Rollerstud98 Rollerstud98 is offline
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
What's changed is that trucks have gone from being utility vehicles to luxury liners.

And safety, airbags everywhere in a vehicle now, crumple zones all kinds of shit. Just look at Honda Civics then and now.
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  #1034  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2020, 1:02 AM
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
Did you have winter tires on your old subcompact? A car with proper winter tires is just as easy to drive as an SUV in typical conditions. You can get AWD in cars too - my old Audi S5 wouldn't get stuck anywhere.
Most of the time a car works fine... my second vehicle is a midsize sedan (with winter tires) and yeah, it usually does the job. But for moving bigger items, bigger shopping trips, going on a road trip or driving in less than ideal conditions, it's the SUV every time. I've done it both ways and this way suits me better.
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  #1035  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2020, 1:46 PM
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Now, I'm a big fan of pickup trucks, but I can see a lot of merit to the arguments people make. Some thoughts:

- There is definitely an "arms race" - between the big three at least, over towing capacity, payload, etc. Of course 90% of people never need them, but when they make a truck that is capable for the 10% that do, there's a big segment that want to buy that just so they can have the best there is.

-this is definitely fuelled by low interest and long term loans. That's how I could afford my truck -7 years at 0%. I'm thankfully almost done, a 20 year old brain doesn't really have a good grasp of how long 7 years paying for something is.

-Automakers do their best to push this, since people are willing to pay lots of money for the super-capable, super luxurious vehicles. What company wouldn't push their highest-margin product?

-There used to SMALL truck options. The payload/towing arms race has somewhat by necessity led to larger and larger trucks. Part of it is consumer taste as well, but not all. You need a lot of spring travel to smoothly suspend 2000lbs in a box going 120. But, through a combination of market preference and dealerships pushing the most expensive ones, the option to buy a small truck is being taken away. The new "midsize" trucks, i.e. Colorado/Canyon/Ranger, are as big old full size trucks used to be. Nowhere to be found is an equivalent to the old s10, rangers, or those tiny Mazda or Toyota trucks.

-This leads leads to a personal gripe of mine. The death of the TWO DOOR pickup. The classic truck configuration. GM will no longer sell you a 2-door-shortbox, you have to get the 8' bed work truck (they sell them in Mexico and the middle east, but that's a different complaint altogether). Ram took a year off of even making 2doors - explained as being part of model year production changeover. The midsizes dont even come in a two door option!

I think, but have not looked into it specifically to know for sure, that this has something to do with CAFE regulations, where gas mileage allowance is partially based on vehicle footprint. So a short truck with the same engine gets a worse rating. And since fewer people will pay as much for a two door as they will for a four door, both the automakers and dealers are incetivized to push the bigger trucks. There are fewer on the lots, and they give way better deals on big ones. They (well, GM anyway) severely limit the options and trim level on the two doors trucks, so if there's a certain feature you gotta have, you're forced to get the larger truck.

I bought my (2door, 6 foot box) new in 2014 for $42,000. They would. not. budge. on that price. But happily offered me a better-optioned, 4 door version, for WAY less money, like under $40k. If I had only cared about the money, OF COURSE I'd take the 10-15k discounts for "more truck". I didn't WANT more truck, but I'm very clearly in a tiny majority. I'm glad I didn't go bigger, now at my current house, my (shortest possible truck I could buy) overhangs the sidewalk by about an inch, if I touch the back bumper to my porch.

-There's also a bit of a gearhead/performance aspect. For a while there was a real dearth of "muscle car" type options for new cars, and trucks offer a decent way to get old school big American V8 engines for a reasonable price compared to actual performance cars.



In my defense I did live on a farm when I bought my truck. So now I'm one of those office workers with a truck who doesn't really need one, and I freely admit that. But it sure is REALLY handy to have. And I determined that the only way to actually make my not-great decision of buying a new vehicle worth it it to drive it as long as possible.
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  #1036  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2020, 2:06 PM
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I have no fault whatsoever with people that really need large pickup trucks for work or (very) frequent hauling, or agriculture, etc.

It is the other 90% of people who take up more space (roads, parking...just try getting into your car when there are prickup trucks parked on either side), emit more exhaust fumes, make much more noise, block the views of other motorists, increase wear and tear on roads given greater vehicle weight, and (all too often) act like self-entitled jerks on the road. Those are the people I have a problem with.
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  #1037  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2020, 2:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jonny24 View Post

In my defense I did live on a farm when I bought my truck. So now I'm one of those office workers with a truck who doesn't really need one, and I freely admit that. But it sure is REALLY handy to have..
Are they really that handy?

I recall that when I had a big pickup for a week (loaner from a dealer), one time my wife and I went to Costco and bought a bunch of stuff that we put in the back, and then we panicked because it started pouring rain on our way home. (We'd only had vehicles with enclosed storage before, so never thought of rain or snow.)

I guess you can address that with a cap (ugly) or cover (not bad) of some sort, but the majority of pickups I see don't have the back enclosed in any way.
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  #1038  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2020, 2:12 PM
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Wouldn't a minivan come in handy for most Canadian's hauling needs (other than those that use their trucks for work purposes)?
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  #1039  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2020, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Wouldn't a minivan come in handy for most Canadian's hauling needs (other than those that use their trucks for work purposes)?
With the seats down (which all of them have these days) you can fit a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood in the back of any minivan pretty much.
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  #1040  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2020, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Wouldn't a minivan come in handy for most Canadian's hauling needs (other than those that use their trucks for work purposes)?
For the typical family, I would imagine so. In an earlier iteration of our family, we considered a minivan.

However, we've since outgrown a minivan and now have a "hulking full size SUV" for family duties. When utilizing the full seating capacity of a minivan - which is kinda the point - there is surprising little utility left.

Beyond that, hauling in the upholstered interior of a minivan is different than the bed of a truck... Sure, you can move finished goods, but it's a whole 'nother ball game when you need to move actual "materials"... Been there, done that, would rather not again.
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