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  #20341  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2013, 8:33 PM
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I cannot find the other designs but I was really pushing for Grimshaw to win. Hopefully it would open the floodgates for other British architects like Foster, Rogers, Wilkinson Eyre, etc.

For some reason large American clients are comfortable with Pelli.
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  #20342  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2013, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Love it. Kinda reminds me of a '59 Bel Air.


src
Such an obscure (but accurate!) reference.

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Originally Posted by untitledreality View Post
I really hope the language suggesting that the Pelli design is the "recommended" option allows some wiggle room, because this proposal is nowhere close to being as thought out as the other competing design I have seen.
I like the roof, but I gotta agree with BK that the design is neither bold nor coherent enough, especially the interiors. Was really hoping for one of the other architects, especially one of the Chicago teams (though I'm sure OMA's design would be pretty exciting).

So are they going to show us the alternatives? Is there any transparency to this process?
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  #20343  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2013, 8:49 PM
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For some reason large American clients are comfortable with Pelli.
I think their perception is that he's the safest choice among all the big-name architects.
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  #20344  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2013, 8:54 PM
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Where can I find the other design entries?
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  #20345  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 12:10 AM
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It is a safe design, which Im sure McPier is going for. The use of glass makes it seem more inviting and open. The elevation of the floor is very low, since the building itself seems very short and less imposing. There's really not a lot to complain about. It actually just looks like an extension of McCormick Place West.

I do like the roof as well, probably the boldest aspect of the design. I also like the height of the adjacent boutique hotel building massing.
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  #20346  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 1:30 PM
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DePaul's new theatre building was also designed by Pelli Clarke Pelli, so how much of a competition was it for the design for this arena?

It would have been nice to see the designs of the other entries.
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  #20347  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 2:57 PM
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I'm assuming that ghostly high-rise massing to the right of the arena is yet-to-be-designed boutique hotel. I wonder who the architect is for that component?
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  #20348  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 3:10 PM
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  #20349  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 4:20 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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That design is definitely safe. The roof is interesting, but that's about it. I'm not an architect, but I wonder how it would look if the roof edges were more rounded and not square. This just seems like one of those buildings that looks OK now and then in 20-30 years looks like shit after it ages.
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  #20350  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 4:40 PM
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Okay, here's something VERRRRY interesting I just found looking through permits. One for $29.25 million was approved to convert a commercial property in North Lawndale to 181 apartments at 3301 W Arthington (Near Homan Square, and a few blocks south of the Kedzie-Homan blue line stop and a little NW of Douglas Park). In other words, more of the old Sears HQ next to Homan Square.

Upon further investigation, I saw the owner was listed as "Mordecai Tessler." Doing some research, I found out he's a partner of the Royal Imperial Group in the West Loop, a group who is responsible for Sterling Tower in River North, amongst other things in the city and area.

Doing some Googling, I found out they have plans to convert a former Sears-Roebuck commercial/factory property in this exact area into 800-1200 affordable and market rate apartments, condos, and townhomes with the title "Sterling Park." I found an article from 2005 explaining it and this exact place is for the former 6 story Merchandise & Development Laboratory. From the article, it sounds like they have taken the Homan Square development into account with the fact that this is not far from the Blue Line and also near a major expressway, as well as a big park, amongst other things such as some semi-new schools, community center, and big daycare. Looks like the development is supposed to be 13 acres, or 4 city blocks in size, at an estimated total cost of $300 million. Thoughts?

* Official Developer Page For Development: http://www.royalimperial.com/sterling-park/

* 2005 Article: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...nt-new-catalog

* Building Permit: https://data.cityofchicago.org/Build...r8-5enu/299254

Last edited by marothisu; Sep 22, 2013 at 4:59 PM.
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  #20351  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 5:19 PM
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^ Wow. Nice sleuthing.
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  #20352  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 5:32 PM
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I hope this stadium deal is the final nail in Rahm's coffin. What a joke.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago...t?oid=10855117
Quote:

If the city had let McHugh build his data center, he'd be paying property taxes that would support the schools.

Instead, the mayor will be taking property tax dollars from the schools to buy McHugh's land. Of course, city-owned property pays no property taxes. So the mayor's spending money to lose money. And you wonder why our schools can't afford art teachers.
Quote:
On the CenterPoint/Lakeside block, the city and Metropolitan Pier will team up to build a second, smaller hotel and an arena that DePaul's basketball team will use. The arena will also host concerts and sporting events, the mayor says.

All told, the city and state say it'll cost about $840 million to develop this project—of which $70 million will come from DePaul.
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  #20353  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 6:12 PM
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^ You know, I read that article, and while some of it has merit, it is far too one-sided. For example:

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Essentially, the mayor's using the money he "saved" by firing teachers to create lower-paid hotel jobs. Killing middle-class jobs to clear the way for lower-paying jobs—someone should tell President Obama what his old chief of staff is up to.
^ Yes, perhaps it can be looked at this way. But Chicago (and Illinois') biggest problem right now is too many public employee pensions. I'm not sure that eliminating some of these positions is entirely a bad thing. That's what's strangling the goose, so to speak.

In addition, this article keeps harping on the closing of public schools but fails to address the reality that the city is saving money by closing down schools, a process that had to happen because the city lost over 200,000 people in the last decade. Furthermore, those schools can be sold off to private developers and eventually return to the property tax rolls.

Finally, the economic benefit of having thousands of more hotel rooms and an arena in this area of town have yet to be measured. Narry a mention of this in the article either.

Bottom line is, this is a very one sided article, likely written by a disgruntled union liberal.
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  #20354  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 7:51 PM
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In addition, this article keeps harping on the closing of public schools but fails to address the reality that the city is saving money by closing down schools, a process that had to happen because the city lost over 200,000 people in the last decade. Furthermore, those schools can be sold off to private developers and eventually return to the property tax rolls.
and yet money magically exists to be funneled to private charter schools (i wonder if they could try to be a little more obvious about their real intentions)



Quote:
Bottom line is, this is a very one sided article, likely written by a disgruntled union liberal.
If you haven't been following Ben Joravasky's reporting for the past decade than you are doing yourself a disservice as a public citizen. I frankly think the man should be mayor.

Last edited by Via Chicago; Sep 22, 2013 at 8:04 PM.
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  #20355  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 8:24 PM
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I hope this stadium deal is the final nail in Rahm's coffin. What a joke.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago...t?oid=10855117
The city kick in, which is a small fraction of the overall project, will be more than compensated for via other taxes (food, hotel, alcohol, etc) and other related economic activity. The bulk of the project will be funded though excess MEPA bonding authority.

$55M in TIF money is pretty much a fart in the wind when put against the budget and pension issued facing CPS, which will require our massively dysfunctional legislature to meaningfully address.
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  #20356  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 9:22 PM
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Yeah, the article seems like Joravsky is venting more than he is drawing a logical case against Emanuel's plan. Expanding the downtown with another activity center will undoubtedly increase the economic pie and the tax base, far more than whatever measly property taxes are contributed by the purchased parcels. Joravsky can't even make a jobs argument, either... how many people are employed by Windy City furniture, a small branch bank, a parking garage, and a (hypothetical) data center? How many permanent new jobs will be created from a stadium and two huge full-service hotels? How much income tax revenue will those workers generate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Okay, here's something VERRRRY interesting I just found looking through permits. One for $29.25 million was approved to convert a commercial property in North Lawndale to 181 apartments at 3301 W Arthington (Near Homan Square, and a few blocks south of the Kedzie-Homan blue line stop and a little NW of Douglas Park). In other words, more of the old Sears HQ next to Homan Square.
This is the old Sears/Roebuck printing building, a beautiful Chicago brick warehouse with Florentine details.

I remember seeing the original renderings for Sterling Park a few years back. It's hard to believe something that dense could sprout up on the West Side (and it didn't) but I think it shows the kind of dense development that could happen if the city takes the PMD shackles off of industrial districts. These areas are already full of large mid-rises and often far from meddling neighbors, so new mid-rise infill could go up with a minimum of resistance.
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  #20357  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2013, 10:16 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
This is the old Sears/Roebuck printing building, a beautiful Chicago brick warehouse with Florentine details.

I remember seeing the original renderings for Sterling Park a few years back. It's hard to believe something that dense could sprout up on the West Side (and it didn't) but I think it shows the kind of dense development that could happen if the city takes the PMD shackles off of industrial districts. These areas are already full of large mid-rises and often far from meddling neighbors, so new mid-rise infill could go up with a minimum of resistance.
Yeah, it's a really nice building, as is the even bigger building next door to it. I think you bring up a good point with the residents of the areas and not caring as much. I think it's a good re-use of some great buildings in that area too and the location, when you think about it, is pretty good. I have only been around that area a few times (more towards Western ave in East Garfield Park), but is it medium-safe? I know there have been some homicides in the general area but not a ton. Of course if they built 800-1200 apartments in that area, it could be a great vehicle for change. It does seem good that they do plan on including affordable housing rates as part of this too. Of course, this area's prices for apartments is not high to begin with, but still..

BTW Rahm passed the issuance of housing revenue bonds to the company in February:
https://chicago.legistar.com/Legisla...1-A91C7671E06C
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  #20358  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 1:54 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
I hope this stadium deal is the final nail in Rahm's coffin. What a joke.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago...t?oid=10855117
I have a hard time listening to a single word out of the mouth of someone who implies Rahm is somehow motivated by defunding education and laying off teachers. Seriously, what an imbecile, no wonder no one is actually jumping on the anti-rahm bandwagon when his most prominent critics are so inarticulate in their case against him.

Does this author seriously believe that not spending money in a South Loop TIF will somehow be the savior of the CPS? Does he really believe that hiring more overpaid, surplus, CPS teachers will save the CPS? The most absurd comments in the article is where he says if CPS teachers "stick around long enough they can make close to $100k" (which by the way is inaccurate, many CPS teachers can make in excess of six figures especially when you take into account their obscene benefit package and the fact they get 25% of the year off) and then goes on to claim teachers are the "backbone of the middle class". I think the true members of the middle class might dispute the notion that a group of people who make $70k+ on average with massive benefits packages and 25% of the year off are in any way comparable when the median household income in the United States is a hair less than $50,000 and most of those households are now dual income homes. I don't see how one person making $70k a year can be described as "middle class".

But I digress as this discussion isn't about teachers and shouldn't be about teachers (which is the biggest mistake our author makes since people are simply sick of hearing the union boosters whine that they haven't been able to cockblock Rahms reforms), the debate should be about the economic impacts that this project will have on the city. The fact is 2,000 additional hotel rooms and a new multi-purpose arena are, unquestionably, going to have a positive economic impact on the neighborhood and, most likely, the entire region. How he can take himself seriously after claiming that a drive thru bank and a bunch of derelict, low intensity, storefronts are going to generate more economic activity and taxes than the proposed use is completely beyond me.

Finally, the vast majority of Chicagoans don't see this as a scandal so his inaccurate words fall on deaf ears. Why don't they see this as a scandal? Because it isn't. The City really has a minor role to play in these projects as it is primarily being driven and funded by McPier which is an entity created and empowered on the state level meaning it functions mainly independently from the city of Chicago. McPier has been pushing plans for additional hotels here for years and they have always been looking for ways to expand their conferencing amenities. The fact is this is not some conspiracy led by Rahm to take away poor teachers jobs so he can funnel the money to DePaul (sounds absurd when it is summarized doesn't it?). This is a logical expansion of McCormick Place driven at least 50% by an independent entity and, to a degree, by Rahm who wants to see the convention center and South Loop prosper. Any questions about the teachers and CPS are out of the picture. The CPS closings and reforms are just that, CPS closings and reforms that are badly needed and in no way linked to some kind of larger scheme to "get the unions" or something absurd like that.
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  #20359  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 3:45 PM
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For anybody who is a resident of, or a frequenter of Chinatown, I urge you to fill out the survey on this page. It looks like a development plan for Chinatown will be hashed out and anybody (hopefully those familiar with Chinatown) can give their thoughts:

http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/lta/chinatown
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  #20360  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 6:28 PM
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a lot of things
im not going to give this a full response as it will likely only get deleted, which is unfortunate.
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