Canadian LRT/RT projects U/C

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Many of us see urban rail transit as a way to reduce sprawl or at least reduce the resulting auto-dependency. Seems odd to encourage 10km of extra sprawl just to justify spending more money on expensive infrastructure that isn't otherwise needed.

Well, if we had good heavy rail passenger services, then my idea would not be needed. Edmonton will keep growing. If the city were to direct the growth such that it fits in with its plans for RT, then it might not be as bad as just sprawl. Imagine taking those 10 km and planning and approving TOD and other well designed neighbourhoods. I was not thinking of a 10km sea of SFHs.

[Coldrsx]

The would not be a need to accelerate growth along that line so long as they create a viable park and ride hub at Nisku for some workers and those coming into Edmonton along with something for Leduc residents to pair with YEG.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Many of us see urban rail transit as a way to reduce sprawl or at least reduce the resulting auto-dependency. Seems odd to encourage 10km of extra sprawl just to justify spending more money on expensive infrastructure that isn't otherwise needed.

Perhaps Ottawa should have kept this in mind before extending its commuter LRT to its furthest suburban reaches.

[hipster duck]

Sometimes I forget how sprawly - well, at least linearly in an east-west fashion along Highway 417 - Ottawa is. I just looked it up and it's 48 km from Stittsville in the west to the Trim Park and Ride in Orleans in the east.

In Toronto terms, that's the same distance as Pickering to the Airport. In Montreal terms, that's the same distance as Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue on the western tip of the island to the LH Lafontaine Tunnel entrance.

It really calls into question whether low-floor light rail was really the appropriate choice of technology to build a regional rail system in Ottawa, but no sense flogging a dead horse.

[Innsertnamehere]

The Greenbelt in Ottawa causes the city to be far far larger geographically than it needs to be. Terrible government policy IMO.

[Base]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Well, if we had good heavy rail passenger services, then my idea would not be needed. Edmonton will keep growing. If the city were to direct the growth such that it fits in with its plans for RT, then it might not be as bad as just sprawl. Imagine taking those 10 km and planning and approving TOD and other well designed neighbourhoods. I was not thinking of a 10km sea of SFHs.

I like this idea. The are will indeed eventually be developed anyways why not build it in a way that maximizes density and built form around transit.

I wouldn't always say this but the airport is already there and will be a big trip generator. Also doesn't hurt there is a city of 35k ppl nextdoor to the airport.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The Greenbelt in Ottawa causes the city to be far far larger geographically than it needs to be. Terrible government policy IMO.

It's wouldn't have been so bad if development wasn't permitted to 'leapfrog' into Kanata, Barrhaven, Stittsville, Orleans, etc. If proper regional planning was in place at the time, Ottawa would be a much more compact and dense city today.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Base

I like this idea. The are will indeed eventually be developed anyways why not build it in a way that maximizes density and built form around transit.

I wouldn't always say this but the airport is already there and will be a big trip generator. Also doesn't hurt there is a city of 35k ppl nextdoor to the airport.

It is thinking ahead and accepting certain realities. We do not have enough houses in Canada, so sprawl will happen. Let's learn from the past and try to do it better.

Originally Posted by hipster duck

It really calls into question whether low-floor light rail was really the appropriate choice of technology to build a regional rail system in Ottawa, but no sense flogging a dead horse.

It was never a good idea, but it is what some people though that the voters would agree with.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Base

I like this idea. The are will indeed eventually be developed anyways why not build it in a way that maximizes density and built form around transit.

I wouldn't always say this but the airport is already there and will be a big trip generator. Also doesn't hurt there is a city of 35k ppl nextdoor to the airport.

So far, a lot of greenfields along the current and planned O-Train Lines are still seeing classic suburban proposals of sfh, townhomes and retail surrounded by parking.

That said, the City is working on a new density plan in Orleans, and both Kanata and Barrhaven have at least some dense nodes, though I'm not sure the planned O-Train has much to do with those.

Originally Posted by Harrison

It's wouldn't have been so bad if development wasn't permitted to 'leapfrog' into Kanata, Barrhaven, Stittsville, Orleans, etc. If proper regional planning was in place at the time, Ottawa would be a much more compact and dense city today.

The idea was to cap the population within the Greenbelt at 500k and cities outside the Greenbelt would have been independent satellite cities. That worked somewhat with Kanata, which has a high-tech business park of around 30k jobs, but Orleans is purely a bedroom community (though it is the closest to downtown, so it's not so bad).

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Wow that far off?? I will not get a chance to make use of the airport line.

It's roughly 10km from 41 Ave Sw to the airport, and all the land is rural. It's very expensive to lay LRT tracks, and passing through an area with no people would not be economically viable.

Not enough people coming from the Airport would use it to make a line there worth building. 2050 may he optimistic. I don't expect to see it built within my lifetime.

[ciudad_del_norte]

Agreed. While LRT to the airport is a nice idea, I don't see there being a demand to support construction over that distance to make it a mass transit priority for the Edmonton region. especially as it looks like the City of Edmonton actively annexed the land between 41 Ave SW and the airport to try to limit suburban development in that direction.

[Coldrsx]

It's (SW) the fastest growing part of the city and will only accelerate with a new hospital, a lot of industrial/commercial along the QE2 and so I could see it ~2050, but not sooner.

[J.OT13]

Never realized the Edmonton Airport was that far outside the city. I think a simple UPX type project using existing tracks would be better than full on LRT.

[Base]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Never realized the Edmonton Airport was that far outside the city. I think a simple UPX type project using existing tracks would be better than full on LRT.

Would be incredible to have something like that run along the tracks that already run from Whyte Avenue to just across the highway from the airport.

[Coldrsx]

A UPX express from YEG down the old CP ROW would be ideal, but I'm not sure that's in the plans now.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

A UPX express from YEG down the old CP ROW would be ideal, but I'm not sure that's in the plans now.

Also for 3/4 of that line the CP still operates freight.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

It's (SW) the fastest growing part of the city and will only accelerate with a new hospital, a lot of industrial/commercial along the QE2 and so I could see it ~2050, but not sooner.

It's not going to accelerate that fast. SE Calgary has been growing at an insane rate for 20 years, far more than sw Edmonton. However, SE Calgary has not expanded by 10km in any direction from 2000

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Never realized the Edmonton Airport was that far outside the city. I think a simple UPX type project using existing tracks would be better than full on LRT.

The problem is that line does not go into the downtown. No heavy rail lines go through downtown.

[Coldrsx]

CP goes north to Whyte and the rails over the 'soon to be considered/improved' High Level Bridge could accommodate this to 109st/100ave.

[Coldrsx]

TransEd credit rating downgraded.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...ast-lrt-delays