Trillium Line Upgrades & Extension (Stage 2) [Greenboro to Airport/Limebank] | U/C

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/...43834027888643

Consultations starting tomorrow on renaming Carling station to Dow's Lake (Yes please!!) and Gladstone to Corso Italia (...What?!).

Looks like that email J.OT13 sent worked?

I'm very happy for Dow's Lake. Don't know if I can take any credit for it; I emailed three Councillors a few months ago and only one responded.

As for Gladstone, I have mused at the possibility of renaming it Little Italy, though my opinion on this was not quite as strong as with Carling/Dow's Lake. The problem with Little Italy is that it would end up as Little Italy/Petite Italie. I somehow did not foresee that for Dow's Lake (/Lac Dow)*. I'm not a fan of this convention (Parliament/Parlement).

I do like the idea of Corso Italia-Gladstone. This seems like a popular way to identify street and neighbourhood in other cities.

*I wonder if the station could be Lac Dow's Lake to avoid repetition?

[J.OT13]

Based on Brockington's Tweet, maybe I did have something to do with it.

Riley Brockington - City Councillor, River Ward
@RiverWardRiley
As a result of input received from our residents, the four Councillors whose wards meet at the Carling O-Train Station proposed its renaming to Dow’s Lake/Lac Dow. This better reflects the neighbourhood and major tourism destination. Public consultation open until Nov 12.
4:22 PM · Oct 28, 2020·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/RiverWardRiley/s...48002213978114

Reading it, I was like "four? who's the fourth? Oh right, Menard!" I feel bad he's the only one I didn't email.

[OCCheetos]

A "render" of some sort for Dow's Lake station:


The only real difference visible here is the elevator.

[J.OT13]

Functional.

[J.OT13]

Fingers crossed for a major overhaul as part of the new Civic Hospital project in 5-10 years.

[Kitchissippi]

Just shorten it to Dow station. Likewise Tunney's Pasture could have been simply Tunney station.

Not a fan of Corso Italia. We quibble about bilingualism but somehow it's OK to introduce a third language without translation? Absolutely nobody refers to Preston street as that, it's not even a place, it's a honorary thematic subtitle like Confederation Boulevard.

[Andyvc10]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Just shorten it to Dow station. Likewise Tunney's Pasture could have been simply Tunney station.

Not a fan of Corso Italia. We quibble about bilingualism but somehow it's OK to introduce a third language without translation? Absolutely nobody refers to Preston street as that, it's not even a place, it's a honorary thematic subtitle like Confederation Boulevard.

I agree, keep it simple. That’s probably why the planners chose Carling in the first place, over Dow’s Lake, Lac Dow or any other combination. Same with Gladstone, it works fine, that’s why it was chosen.

[Catenary]

I'll agree with the general sentiment here that my first thought was that this was political pandering. Does anyone have the list of criteria used to name stations that was brought up when the Confederation Line names were being decided? If I recall correctly, there is a hierarchy of 7 or so categories, and this doesn't feel like it would be near the top of that hierarchy.

I'm mixed on the Carling renaming. My first thought is that I think it's important to have a good reason to rename a station that already has an established name. Switching Campus to uOttawa is fine, as that's not going to confuse anybody and the names are referring to the same thing. Carling to Dow's Lake is a bit more of a stretch.

If we want to integrate these names into the stations better, I think some station theming/place making would be great, and we could have have hyphenated names. Functionally, this would be similar to how we have Tremblay also announce Via Rail, and the buses often announce a key nearby destinations (The Good Companions Seniors Centre comes to mind). Carling - Dow's Lake and Gladstone - Little Italy both have a distinct name, and a tie in to the local area.

[J.OT13]

The online survey is up:

https://www.octranspo.com/en/our-ser...o-train-line-2

Here are the criteria:

• Meaningful geographic reference;
• Easy to understand in French and English;
• Easy to pronounce;
• Easy to write;
• Unique from other stations and city locations.

[mxg308]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I'll agree with the general sentiment here that my first thought was that this was political pandering. Does anyone have the list of criteria used to name stations that was brought up when the Confederation Line names were being decided? If I recall correctly, there is a hierarchy of 7 or so categories, and this doesn't feel like it would be near the top of that hierarchy.

I'm mixed on the Carling renaming. My first thought is that I think it's important to have a good reason to rename a station that already has an established name. Switching Campus to uOttawa is fine, as that's not going to confuse anybody and the names are referring to the same thing. Carling to Dow's Lake is a bit more of a stretch.

If we want to integrate these names into the stations better, I think some station theming/place making would be great, and we could have have hyphenated names. Functionally, this would be similar to how we have Tremblay also announce Via Rail, and the buses often announce a key nearby destinations (The Good Companions Seniors Centre comes to mind). Carling - Dow's Lake and Gladstone - Little Italy both have a distinct name, and a tie in to the local area.

The Corso Italia name makes no sense and doesn't even follow the city's rule about being a "Meaningful geographic reference". Just do what they did for Rideau Station - ByWard Market and call it Gladstone Station - Little Italy, Station Gladstone - Petite Italie. Now the name is geographically significant, bilingual and Little Italy gets a bone too.

[J.OT13]

On Gladstone, here's part of the reasoning for the name change:

Gladstone Avenue is named for the former U.K. prime minister William Ewart Gladstone (1809-1898), who opposed the emancipation of enslaved peoples early in his political career

I was aware Gladstone was a British Prime Minister. It's something I found out fairly recently (last year or two). I was not aware he opposed the emancipation of enslaved people.

That said, it's a safe bet that the vast majority of people don't know any of this. I'm also pretty damn confident that is not the reason why we named the street after him in the first place, just like we didn't name half the town and put up statues of Sir John A. for his part on residential schools. Just like most people in history, I'm sure Gladstone's legacy is nuanced.

If we use this as an "excuse" to change the station's name, should this not also be used as justification to change the name of the entire street? Not that I'm advocating for this, but very few people associate the street with Gladstone the man (though now the cat's out of the bag, which could create tension).

Side note: I would love for the City to create a website that lists all street names and gives some history of its namesake, good and bad.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

A "render" of some sort for Dow's Lake station:


The only real difference visible here is the elevator.

Current conditions for those who can't tell the difference. I'm sure they will also add the "O" pylon. I hope they also install the lantern for consistency with Confederation Line stations , since the elevator shroud won't be included.


https://www.railfans.ca/otrain/trill...ions/dows-lake

[JHikka]

It would make things much easier if they just used names that could be used to cover both languages. Station Dow Station is better than Station Lac Dow / Dow's Lake Station. Corso Italia, being as bad as it is, at least isn't repeated for both official languages.

Anything to avoid another Station uOttawa / uOttawa Station or Station Parlement / Parliament Station. Pointless.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I was aware Gladstone was a British Prime Minister. It's something I found out fairly recently (last year or two). I was not aware he opposed the emancipation of enslaved people.

That said, it's a safe bet that the vast majority of people don't know any of this. I'm also pretty damn confident that is not the reason why we named the street after him in the first place, just like we didn't name half the town and put up statues of Sir John A. for his part on residential schools. Just like most people in history, I'm sure Gladstone's legacy is nuanced.

If we use this as an "excuse" to change the station's name, should this not also be used as justification to change the name of the entire street? Not that I'm advocating for this, but very few people associate the street with Gladstone the man (though now the cat's out of the bag, which could create tension).

It makes me wonder if we should ever name anything after anyone in case sometime in the future it comes out that they did something bad.

Side note: I would love for the City to create a website that lists all street names and gives some history of its namesake, good and bad.

Agreed.

[Andyvc10]

Originally Posted by mxg308

The Corso Italia name makes no sense and doesn't even follow the city's rule about being a "Meaningful geographic reference". Just do what they did for Rideau Station - ByWard Market and call it Gladstone Station - Little Italy, Station Gladstone - Petite Italie. Now the name is geographically significant, bilingual and Little Italy gets a bone too.

It seems to fail on language, it’s neither English or French. I assumed Corso means Little, as in Little Italy but it doesn’t.

Corso means main street or boulevard in Italian
Corso Italia is the ceremonial name for nearby Preston Street which runs through Little Italy

Preston-Italia might be a better name. It’s good on language, gives the geographic marker of Preston street, and Italia is a nod to Little Italy.

[OCCheetos]

Rail installation is beginning on the extension. I can't really tell where along the alignment this is, but it's a single-track section.
It looks like they're using concrete ties there.

Edit: It's somewhere between South Keys and Leitrim.

https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/...43967916875781

[ACmodels]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Edit: It's somewhere between South Keys and Leitrim.

https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/...43967916875781

I'm a little concerned as to the placement of the rails in relation to the fence posts at the sides of the picture.

It doesn't look like there's enough room for another track. Unless in the future one of the fences get moved but I find that counter intuitive.

[Lightspotting]

From the airport spur to just before Letrim road is single tracked


It was posted before but what was the estimated travel Time from limeback to Bayview

[TheMatth69]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Rail installation is beginning on the extension. I can't really tell where along the alignment this is, but it's a single-track section.
It looks like they're using concrete ties there.

Edit: It's somewhere between South Keys and Leitrim.

https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/...43967916875781

So that answers my question from some weeks ago.

Mixture of wood and concrete ties is usually bad because mixing both technologies means different solutions regarding issues like rail expansion/contraction with heat/cold, difference in comfort (wood ties usually age much faster and rail alignment can vary much more with them) therefore the train might shake more on wood ties and finally I think that mixing both is counter productive regarding future plans to upgrade the line. It would be easier indeed to change all the ties to concrete in order to not have to change all the ties to concrete in the future.

So I hope that it means the line will entirely be upgraded to concrete ties.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

So that answers my question from some weeks ago.

Mixture of wood and concrete ties is usually bad because mixing both technologies means different solutions regarding issues like rail expansion/contraction with heat/cold, difference in comfort (wood ties usually age much faster and rail alignment can vary much more with them) therefore the train might shake more on wood ties and finally I think that mixing both is counter productive regarding future plans to upgrade the line. It would be easier indeed to change all the ties to concrete in order to not have to change all the ties to concrete in the future.

So I hope that it means the line will entirely be upgraded to concrete ties.

I'm not really sure where most of what you say is coming from. Concrete ties are commonly mixed with wood, the Trillium line had segments of both before it shut down. What you don't want to do is intersperse concrete ties with wood, as they do have different spacing and of course fastening systems, as well as different maintenance needs. You can easily switch back and forth though - the Trillium Line north of Greenboro had concrete ties added in 2017, then wood for the Walkley diamond, then back to concrete again until the north connecting track switch. The Confederation line used wood ties for all of its special work, as I'm sure the Trillium Line will too. There's no issues having areas of each adjacent to each other.

With that said, It would not surprise me to see large sections of track with concrete ties. They've removed the track from huge sections of the line already, and it would make some sense to replace them with concrete to reduce their long-term maintenance costs.