PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown III

[pj3000]

Well, this certainly can help the downtown residential market (and should help get the Kaufmann's project straightened out). I think this is a major development for any city's downtown.


Hitting the mark: Target to open a store in Downtown Pittsburgh

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202007230119

It’s a bullseye. Target is coming to Downtown Pittsburgh.

The Minneapolis based discount retailer will open an urban format store on the first floor of the old Kaufmann’s/Macy’s building, right under its famous clock at the corner of Smithfield Street and Fifth Avenue.

Michael Samschick, president and CEO of Core Realty, the building’s owner, confirmed Thursday that Target has committed to occupying about 23,000 square feet of space on the first floor.

“It is exciting news that Target is official, signed and sealed,” he said. “We’re very lucky. There were other cities slated as well. We were so fortunate to have them come to the plate.”

The store is expected to open early next year, Mr. Samschick said.

[themaguffin]

That's significant and a little shocking in this Covid time.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

That's significant and a little shocking in this Covid time.

Unless you think COVID-19 will continue being an issue for years to come, I think having a Target open downtown in early 2021 is pretty safe.

Hell, from what I hear the East Liberty Target is still slammed. I haven't been in there since March though myself.

[IMBY]

Access to groceries seems to be the last thing to arrive in gentrifying cities. And those that live downtown will greatly benefit from it.

When I had my condo/loft in downtown Minneapolis 1988-1993, there was no access to groceries, and no online grocery shopping at the time. I still needed a car to drive 4 miles away to a big grocery store. Yup! Move downtown and enjoy a very urban lifestyle, with the most important element missing.

Having followed Minneapolis on this forum for the last number of years, I see, finally, around 2006, with numerous condo buildings having been built since I left that city, they finally opened up a Whole Foods DT, and following that was a Target store, and given Target Corporate Headquarters is in DT Minneapolis.

I believe a number of city planners, developers assume that the urban lifestyle entails eating out for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I currently live in Midtown Tucson, and I'm enjoy a more Urban lifestye than I ever had in DT Minneapolis, walking distance to Trader Joe's and Fry's Grocery Store, and 12 restaurants to choose from. I never considered an "urban lifestyle" in gentrifying downtown Tucson, as I'd need a car to go to a grocery store.

Haven't been to Pittsburgh since the mid-80's and if it weren't for it being in the cloudbelt, I'd be living there. I googled Cloudiest cities in the country, and Pittsburgh is right there with Seattle and Anchorage.

[pj3000]

^ Pittsburgh has, hands down, the worst weather of any of the 10 cities in which I've resided for a year or more.

[BrianTH]

This property near the Bloomfield end of the Bloomfield Bridge is getting a new small-batch brewery:

https://nextpittsburgh.com/city-desi...in-bloomfield/

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pj3000

^ Pittsburgh has, hands down, the worst weather of any of the 10 cities in which I've resided for a year or more.

I personally see it as more a mixed bag. I wish it was a little cooler in summer and that there was more snow in winter, but I actually like the amount of clouds and rain most of the year. Even winter I don't mind too much, but that's when people with SAD or such need to be aware of the local climate.

[Topher51]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Well, this certainly can help the downtown residential market (and should help get the Kaufmann's project straightened out). I think this is a major development for any city's downtown.


Hitting the mark: Target to open a store in Downtown Pittsburgh

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202007230119

I was in Indiana for work last week and drive through the Purdue campus to site see. They are opening a Target in downtown West Lafayette that didn't look much bigger than a couple of Walgreens. I assume the model is to be mostly online pickup with some staples on hand. Granted, the old Macys space is much bigger, but it seems like a good concept for modern, urban retail.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Topher51

I was in Indiana for work last week and drive through the Purdue campus to site see. They are opening a Target in downtown West Lafayette that didn't look much bigger than a couple of Walgreens. I assume the model is to be mostly online pickup with some staples on hand. Granted, the old Macys space is much bigger, but it seems like a good concept for modern, urban retail.

Yeah, that size example sounds about right... 22,000 sq ft is the number they gave. It will certainly become a good anchor/activity hub for the Kaufman’s redevelopment

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by IMBY

Access to groceries seems to be the last thing to arrive in gentrifying cities. And those that live downtown will greatly benefit from it.

When I had my condo/loft in downtown Minneapolis 1988-1993, there was no access to groceries, and no online grocery shopping at the time. I still needed a car to drive 4 miles away to a big grocery store. Yup! Move downtown and enjoy a very urban lifestyle, with the most important element missing.

Having followed Minneapolis on this forum for the last number of years, I see, finally, around 2006, with numerous condo buildings having been built since I left that city, they finally opened up a Whole Foods DT, and following that was a Target store, and given Target Corporate Headquarters is in DT Minneapolis.

I believe a number of city planners, developers assume that the urban lifestyle entails eating out for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I currently live in Midtown Tucson, and I'm enjoy a more Urban lifestye than I ever had in DT Minneapolis, walking distance to Trader Joe's and Fry's Grocery Store, and 12 restaurants to choose from. I never considered an "urban lifestyle" in gentrifying downtown Tucson, as I'd need a car to go to a grocery store.

Haven't been to Pittsburgh since the mid-80's and if it weren't for it being in the cloudbelt, I'd be living there. I googled Cloudiest cities in the country, and Pittsburgh is right there with Seattle and Anchorage.

That's pretty crazy that even downtown Minneapolis didn't have a grocery option. Were there any bodegas or anything like that for basic food staples?
I've been to downtown Minneapolis and it is slightly bigger and moderately nicer than downtown Pittsburgh although they are somewhat comparable. Both have really dense, quality CBD's.

Target is huge in Minneapolis and I would've thought they would have one or more of their stores downtown.

I just think the fulltime downtown populations have never been big enough to justify a dedicated grocery store. I would imagine the population needed to support one or more modern sized supermarkets would be at least 5,000 - 10,000 people, maybe even more? Which these downtowns historically did not have anywhere near that population in the CBD.

[wpipkins2]

This Target store will most likely attract additional retail to downtown Pittsburgh. This target will serve a large area outside of downtown. The store is smaller and will likely mirror the pop up Target in Manhattan. This Target will offer everything with scaled down displays and more trendy merchandise.

Hopefully this will convince developers to get started with the former Frank and Cedar department across Smithfield street. In the 90s Pittsburgh mayor Tom Murphy started an ambitious downtown street reconstruction program. Before this Liberty and Penn Avenues had asphalt paving patches throughout with no street trees or crosswalks. The street lights and signs were rusted, hazardous and without uniformity. To date Fort Duquesne Blvd, Penn Ave, Liberty Avenue, Forbes Ave and Wood St had complete overhauls including drainage, brick crosswalks and street trees. We never got around to completing Smithfield, Blvd of the Allies or Ft Pitt Blvd. The momentum stopped after the Fifth and Forbes retail development fell through.

[themaguffin]

Unless you think COVID-19 will continue being an issue for years to come, I think having a Target open downtown in early 2021 is pretty safe.

Hell, from what I hear the East Liberty Target is still slammed. I haven't been in there since March though myself.

I don't mean the shopping experience - I mean the idea of retail expansion right now, especially since it's up in the air how soon downtowns will be active to support such a store.

Overall, I think it's a great idea.

[IMBY]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

That's pretty crazy that even downtown Minneapolis didn't have a grocery option. Were there any bodegas or anything like that for basic food staples?
I've been to downtown Minneapolis and it is slightly bigger and moderately nicer than downtown Pittsburgh although they are somewhat comparable. Both have really dense, quality CBD's.

Target is huge in Minneapolis and I would've thought they would have one or more of their stores downtown.

I just think the fulltime downtown populations have never been big enough to justify a dedicated grocery store. I would imagine the population needed to support one or more modern sized supermarkets would be at least 5,000 - 10,000 people, maybe even more? Which these downtowns historically did not have anywhere near that population in the CBD.

When I was visiting Dallas in 2009, I was very surprised to see a grocery store right in the heart of downtown, but it wasn't a chain grocery store, it was non-chain. I told the owner I was surprised to see a grocery store in the heart of downtown and he told me the city council demanded a grocery store in the downtown area, otherwise they weren't going to approve any more office building conversions or newer condo buildings.

That should have been done in Minneapolis long ago.

Prior to Target being downtown, what choices were there for the downtowners previously for groceries in Pittsburgh?

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by IMBY

When I was visiting Dallas in 2009, I was very surprised to see a grocery store right in the heart of downtown, but it wasn't a chain grocery store, it was non-chain. I told the owner I was surprised to see a grocery store in the heart of downtown and he told me the city council demanded a grocery store in the downtown area, otherwise they weren't going to approve any more office building conversions or newer condo buildings.

That should have been done in Minneapolis long ago.

Prior to Target being downtown, what choices were there for the downtowners previously for groceries in Pittsburgh?

Downtown Pittsburgh is compact. There are small convenience grocers in downtown. The Strip district(wholesale and specialty grocers) is close enough. I would walk if I lived downtown. There are several farmers markets throughout the week not to mention a full service grocery across the river on the Northside.

[Yorkie]

compact???....many East coast cities are compact....a major grocery store is a plus for any center city which would help make prices more competitive and not let prices be dictated by store owners having a none competitive market, companion helps keeps prices down. Plus you can not do major shopping in a store that is limited too what it offers, so called convenience store. Food deserts are in every major city and until people demand better or do something too change it it will remain. Unhealthy choices bring on other problems as well.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by Yorkie

compact???....many East coast cities are compact....a major grocery store is a plus for any center city which would help make prices more competitive and not let prices be dictated by store owners having a none competitive market, companion helps keeps prices down. Plus you can not do major shopping in a store that is limited too what it offers, so called convenience store. Food deserts are in every major city and until people demand better or do something too change it it will remain. Unhealthy choices bring on other problems as well.

I should have said compact and small. Pittsburgh is bound by rivers a and you can walk river to river in 15 min. There are stores close by but not considered downtown. I live in a city neighborhood and usually drive to the grocery store.

[eschaton]

There are a fair amount of places to buy groceries downtown even though there's not a full-scale grocery store. There's that expensive mini-grocer on Market Street. There are the many Rite Aids and CVSes, which these days do have a fair selection of most packaged/frozen groceries. Then there are the independent convenience stores, and the farmers market in Market Square in the warm season.

Most people I have known who live downtown do a lot of their shopping in the Strip District and/or the Deutschtown Giant Eagle though.

[pj3000]

Most people I know who live/have lived downtown (and on the northside) shop in the East End. Which seems totally ridiculous, but it’s the reality of the situation.

With all of the planned residential units for the Lower Hill, it seems that its redevelopment is the prime tract of property for a true supermarket.

[pj3000]

Everyone I know who lives downtown or has lived there, spends what seems to be most of their time “living” in other neighborhoods.

I don’t get the attraction to downtown Pittsburgh living at all. Aside from being able to walk to work if one works downtown, it seems terribly inconvenient in many situations.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Most people I know who live/have lived downtown (and on the northside) shop in the East End. Which seems totally ridiculous, but it’s the reality of the situation.

Due to the presence of the P1, it's probably fairly simple to shop at say the Giant Eagle on Centre Ave, or the East Liberty Target.

Originally Posted by pj3000

With all of the planned residential units for the Lower Hill, it seems that its redevelopment is the prime tract of property for a true supermarket.

I dunno. The last grocery store in the Hill District failed miserably. Part of the issue is the South Side Giant Eagle effectively functions as the Hill District grocery store, with the Port Authority even having most of the local Hill District bus lines terminate at that store. As a result it's fairly convenient for residents without cars to rely upon that store. Thus I think unless a Lower Hill grocery was really competitive on price and offered superior selection, it really wouldn't be widely used by Hill District residents.