Old Halifax

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Great sleuthing! I had noticed the column of smoke while driving through the Fairview overpass around 5:30 on Sat night but was unaware of the source. Discovered the news on the internet in the meantime and could see the glow of an active fire when I drove by there again around 12:30.

If you were looking for closer shots, including video of the active fire, check out this twitter feed, and scroll back to the evening of Nov 9 through Nov 10. There are some good shots on there...

https://twitter.com/hrmfirenews?lang=en

Seeing that it is an older brick building, I was curious as to when it was built and what its original use might have been. Perhaps it's always been a warehouse/storage area?

A few shots from that Twitter feed:

[K-Man]

Some good shots of the action OldDartmouthMark, it almost looks like it's the Superstore that's on fire in the second image down, eh? Earlier this evening I had a chance to check out some of the twitter videos you had linked to...that's a source I should try to use more often. On another note I really enjoyed that post on the Queens Hotel from a while back. There were some interior images that I had never seen before. I think sometimes I enjoy seeing those more than exterior shots - they seem to be more rare though, eh? I had no idea that the original fire truck that was onsite is just over at Station 2. I really have to pay more attention to 'open door' events that are going on as I love being able to see that stuff up close....and in color . That must be the fire truck that can be seen in the foreground in one of the images. Nice post.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Those shots remind me why I have so much respect for firefighters. It could have been quite a disaster had those fuel tanks gone up.

I highly recommend Doors Open. I've done it a few times and am thankful I have had the chance to see some of Halifax's historic buildings from the inside as that's where the history really rings strong. Some of the buildings have since changed ownership as well (like the Halifax Club) and weren't open in subsequent years, so it was great that I got in while the opportunity was there. ...Which again reminds me of how much is lost when an old building is gutted with only the facade remaining. In some eyes it's the same as saving the old building, but really it's just a hollow shell that's left behind as a reminder of what used to be there...

[K-Man]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

....Which again reminds me of how much is lost when an old building is gutted with only the facade remaining.

Agreed...I will say though that I'm glad they decided to keep the front of the old NFB building and incorporate it into the new design. I've always liked the look of that building. The 'Keith/Green Lantern' building also comes to mind. I think it's pretty cool they're going to restore the street entrance/store fronts from the original plans. Different interiors I know but it's pretty great we get to keep some classic structures even if it's just the front facade.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by K-Man

Agreed...I will say though that I'm glad they decided to keep the front of the old NFB building and incorporate it into the new design.

Having it be a blight on Barrington St for 30 years was far too high a price to pay. It should have been knocked down and the site redeveloped in the '90s. We will now likely see a similar thing with the Khyber.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I think the NFB façade was a good save. Perhaps it was looked upon as a 'blight' by some, but if you think of having the burnt-out façade there vs an empty lot for 30 years (which it would have been, or private parking), at least it was a conversation piece. Now that it's being developed the façade will continue to be there for future generations to see, which is a good thing as it is in keeping with Barrington Street as a conservation district.

Building new isn't always the best plan as evidenced by the Roy. The original façade had much more intricate brickwork and was more interesting visually - plus it had 100+ years of history behind it. Now we are left with a façade that was trying to be as good as the original, but is basically a miss.

I like the Green Lantern project - that building had been purposely left to deteriorate in the hopes that it would be too far gone to save, so the owner could tear it down and build new, but luckily the new owner recognized the value of the original building and has ventured to save as much of it as possible. This makes it one of my favourite developments on the street.

The Zellers/Discovery next door is a different sort of façadism - they saved the original cladding but tore down the rest of the building, necessitated at least partly due to the need for underground parking if I understand it correctly. From what I remember, the interior of the building was redone several times from the original Zellers to a cabaret (Misty Moon/Secretary's, etc) to the Discovery Centre - so probably not much worth saving on the inside. I will withhold my opinion until I see how the original cladding is attached to the new building - hopefully with enough detail such that it looks close to the original (though IIRC the wrought iron grillwork that used to hold the Zellers sign will not be installed on the new building), so we'll see, I guess.

The Khyber is a no-brainer. It needs to be retained and maintained. It seems ridiculous to suggest otherwise, to be frank.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I think the NFB façade was a good save. Perhaps it was looked upon as a 'blight' by some, but if you think of having the burnt-out façade there vs an empty lot for 30 years (which it would have been, or private parking), at least it was a conversation piece.

Those 3 buildings along that stretch were an albatross around the neck of Barrington St for decades and still are. It makes that block look derelict and unsafe, which it is, at least in part.

Now that it's being developed the façade will continue to be there for future generations to see, which is a good thing as it is in keeping with Barrington Street as a conservation district.

Hopefully it will serve as a cautionary tale that saving heritage at all costs is not always the wisest course of action.

The Khyber is a no-brainer. It needs to be retained and maintained. It seems ridiculous to suggest otherwise, to be frank.

The only way the Khyber will be restored is with the injection of millions of dollars in tax money, presumably from HRM since they/Mason were the architects of that ridiculous sweetheart deal. Again, retaining heritage at any cost is not a wise use of public money. See also the $5 million gardener's cottage at the Public Gardens.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Those 3 buildings along that stretch were an albatross around the neck of Barrington St for decades and still are. It makes that block look derelict and unsafe, which it is, at least in part.




Hopefully it will serve as a cautionary tale that saving heritage at all costs is not always the wisest course of action.



The only way the Khyber will be restored is with the injection of millions of dollars in tax money, presumably from HRM since they/Mason were the architects of that ridiculous sweetheart deal. Again, retaining heritage at any cost is not a wise use of public money.

As always, this comes down to opinion, which we've long agreed that we will likely never agree (though you surprised me with your Halifax Forum assertion)...

See also the $5 million gardener's cottage at the Public Gardens.

Again, opinion. I actually think it was money well spent to preserve such an iconic building that is part of Halifax's history.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Again, opinion. I actually think it was money well spent to preserve such an iconic building that is part of Halifax's history.

$5M is about $10 per person in the municipality. These costs often are as high as they are due to decades of deferred maintenance. Sometimes the serious repairs keep buildings stable on a timescale of 30, 50, or 100 years. The current North Park armoury work is fixing problems from 1917. The cost per year is therefore much lower than the overall sticker price. This is different from, say, wages, or a snow removal budget for the year.

[K-Man]

Some very good points made fellas. I have to agree a little bit with everyone here. I think what bugs me the most is that sometimes these buildings get left sitting for too long when they could be restored and put back to use generating income. In the case of the NFB building the sentimental historian in me (which I am at heart) is glad that it didn't get knocked down. But it was left for far too long at tax payers expense in a run down state. As someone123 had said the deferred maintenance on these buildings is raising the cost too much at restoration time. I'm glad to see that it's finally being restored but it shouldn't have taken 30 years. OldDartmouthMark made a good point too that it most likely would have been turned into an empty space/parking lot and forgotten about. So, if what someone123 is saying in the case of the Gardners Lodge costing $10 a person then it's worth it to me to try and save some of these buildings.....but it can't be taking decades.

Anyway, I had found a few images as this has peaked my interest. They may have already been posted but I'll throw them up just in case. If anyone has a better image of the NFB building with it's original 'tower' throw it up as I'd love to see it. I bet that was somethin' else to see in it's day, eh?


Source: Historic Places - https://www.historicplaces.ca/hpimag...7528_Large.jpg


Source - Shop Chronicle Herald - https://shop.thechronicleherald.ca/V...et_p_4265.html


Source: Alvin Comiter Photography - https://i0.wp.com/alvincomiter.com/w...fit=1200%2C960

[IanWatson]

On a positive note, there is now glass on the upper floors of the NFB!

[K-Man]

Hey folks!

Just throwing these up in response to Ian's post above. I happened to be on foot today so I thought I'd snap a few pics. The 'ol girl is coming together! I haven't seen any of the final renderings so I'm happy to see that it looks like they're re-creating the old roof. Really looking forward to seeing the finished product on this one!.


Source: My image


Source: My image


Source: My image

[OldDartmouthMark]

Here's a different view with the 'tower' from 1900-ish.



https://johnwood1946.wordpress.com/c...orized/page/3/

[K-Man]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Here's a different view with the 'tower' from 1900-ish.

Well whaddaya know...I had no idea that there used to be a balcony on the second floor. Cool. That's a great image ODM thanks for posting that. I followed the source link and actually ended up looking through the whole 'Glimpses of Halifax' album, lol. There's some fantastic images on there that I've never seen before...Halifax Hotel and the original signage on the NS Furnishing Co. Building are gems, eh?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by K-Man

Well whaddaya know...I had no idea that there used to be a balcony on the second floor. Cool. That's a great image ODM thanks for posting that. I followed the source link and actually ended up looking through the whole 'Glimpses of Halifax' album, lol. There's some fantastic images on there that I've never seen before...Halifax Hotel and the original signage on the NS Furnishing Co. Building are gems, eh?

Yes, I literally stumbled onto that website. I will have to look through it a little more, but I did see quite a few images that I hadn't seen elsewhere.

The Halifax of 1900 looked like it was really on the fast track to becoming a major urban centre. When you consider the number of significant buildings - the many financial institutions and military buildings, amenities like the Public Gardens, and the general vibrancy of the city. You would expect the Halifax of today to be closer in size to a Vancouver or Edmonton than it is.

The sheer number of stone buildings makes me realize how many have been lost over the past century and a quarter...

Hollis Street from Prince:


Bedford Row, near the cheapside:


Halifax Masonic Temple (not sure of the location):


YMCA building (not sure of location):


North Street Station (we all know what happened to that):


George Street looking west:


George Street looking east:


Hollis Street from Sackville:


Barrington:


Not sure of the location:


There's so much there!

https://johnwood1946.wordpress.com/c...uncategorized/

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The Halifax of 1900 looked like it was really on the fast track to becoming a major urban centre.

It was a major centre in 19th century Canada. In the early 1900's, people figured that Halifax and Saint John would experience the same boom as Toronto and Montreal and end up as cities with a million people or more. I've read that both Halifax and Saint John planned Boston-style underground tram systems during the early 1900's, but they never happened because the growth never materialized. It would be interesting to see some municipal documents from those days.

The Maritimes mostly missed out on growth from about 1890-1930 and the rest of Canada leapt forward.

Population in 1901 (metro populations from Wikipedia)
Vancouver - 42,926
Halifax - 74,662
Montreal - 347,817 (this one might be island only)

Population in 1931
Halifax - 100,204
Vancouver - 246,593
Montreal - 959,198

Vancouver was not very developed in 1901 and it's expected that it would have grown a lot. But even Montreal, which was an established city in 1901, went through a huge boom during a 30 year period, the likes of which we have not seen in Canada since.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

It was a major centre in 19th century Canada. In the early 1900's, people figured that Halifax and Saint John would experience the same boom as Toronto and Montreal and end up as cities with a million people or more. I've read that both Halifax and Saint John planned Boston-style underground tram systems during the early 1900's, but they never happened because the growth never materialized. It would be interesting to see some municipal documents from those days.

The Maritimes mostly missed out on growth from about 1890-1930 and the rest of Canada leapt forward.

Population in 1901 (metro populations from Wikipedia)
Vancouver - 42,926
Halifax - 74,662
Montreal - 347,817 (this one might be island only)

Population in 1931
Halifax - 100,204
Vancouver - 246,593
Montreal - 959,198

Vancouver was not very developed in 1901 and it's expected that it would have grown a lot. But even Montreal, which was an established city in 1901, went through a huge boom during a 30 year period, the likes of which we have not seen in Canada since.

I have long heard that Halifax was very prosperous in the late 19th century, and some of the remaining buildings plus the photos from that era show proof of that. I have also heard that the reason Halifax didn't experience the same level of growth as other cities in the country was mainly due to industry being shifted to more central locations in Ontario and Quebec, for example, such that places like Toronto and Montreal became the centres of trade for Canada, leaving Halifax to be a city dependent mostly on the military rather than industry. I do intend to study up on the subject in the future.

Likewise, I am curious why Vancouver experienced such growth while Halifax stagnated. Being a strategic coastal location certainly would help the situation, but it was still far from any major centres of trade at the time.

Any thoughts on the matter?

[K-Man]

OLD PRESBYTERIAN MANSE (STODDARD HOUSE) ON BARRINGTON AND....WALLACE?

I was out for a little tour on Barrington St. the other day and from a distance noticed this weathered sign on the side of the Old Presbyterian Manse Building. Because it blends in so well with the other corner quoins I've never taken note of it before so when I walked up to take a closer look I realized that it was an old street sign. Although it's barely legible you can make out the the lettering enough to see that it reads "Wallace Street". I didn't even know that a Wallace St. existed but apparently it did. The first image posted below had a date of 2017 on it. The sign is weathered but for the age of the building you can see the accelerated wear on the lettering in just two and a half years compared to the image beside it in 2019. Very reminiscent of the 'BANK' sign that's above the door to the old Collin's Bank at the head of Water St.


Sources: Waymarking.com and my image
https://www.waymarking.com/gallery/i...d-9bc34af93ffb

The building itself was built in 1828 as the first manse for St. Matthews Church and served that purpose until 1875. It's probably most well known as the 'Stoddard House' though named after, drum roll, the Stoddard family! They owned it for almost 50 years from 1931-1980. Apparently Lucy Maud Montgomery lived there too while she studied English Literature at Dalhousie which I thought was pretty cool. I guess she even references the building in 'Anne of the Island'. A ground floor glass addition was later added to serve as an optometrist's office (1919-1931) and if you've got a 'sharp eye' (ha?) you'll have noticed the upright cannon sticking out of the ground to the left of the stairs. That wasn't installed by a soldier who sucked at his job but was actually built that way to act as a bumper for carriage wheels as they passed by....pretty cool. These days it's the current home of the NS Association of Architects which was established in 1932.


Source: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ba...!4d-63.5719226

So, back to the street itself. It was named after the Hon. Michael Wallace who lived in the building for a short time. He came to Halifax in 1779 and wore many hats as a merchant, politician, judge, office holder, and colonial administrator. From what I can gather though he wasn't overly popular so I wonder if during 'city remodeling' over the years that may have been one of the reasons behind the name change. Port Wallace was established in 1861 and is also named after him.

I know it has to be online somewhere but through all of the searching that I did I couldn't find an exact date as to when the street name changed. Waymarking.com suggests 1878 as a possible date. Plate 'J' of Hopkins Atlas (1878) shows the whole street from Pleasant St. (present day Barrington) down to Lower Water St. as being called Bishop. So that supports that theory. To further back that date I found an interesting little map at oldmapsonline.org under the David Rumsey Collection. It was drawn and published by the Roe Brothers in 1878 as well. What's really interesting about their map though is that is shows both Wallace AND Bishop Streets. Wallace turns into Bishop at Hollis and then Bishop then runs from Hollis down to Lower Water St. So based on the information that we have using maps it looks as though 1878 is a pretty good candidate for the name change...but why it was changed is information that I can't seem to find.


Source: NS Archives - Plate J of 'ol Trusty - https://novascotia.ca/archives/maps/plate.asp?ID=12
Source: oldmapsonline.org - https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/ser...~33074~1170437

Sources:
https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default...Dec%202017.pdf
https://www.oldmapsonline.org/map/rumsey/0859.031
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/...use_Halifax_NS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Wallace,_Nova_Scotia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michae...ce_(politician)
http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/wallace_michael_6E.html

[K-Man]

Originally Posted by someone123

Population in 1901 (metro populations from Wikipedia)
Vancouver - 42,926
Halifax - 74,662
Montreal - 347,817 (this one might be island only)

Population in 1931
Halifax - 100,204
Vancouver - 246,593
Montreal - 959,198

Interesting numbers, I'm curious as well as to why we didn't grow like other cities did especially with our location as a port city.

OldDartmouthMark, you made the comment of "....was mainly due to industry being shifted to more central locations in Ontario and Quebec, for example, such that places like Toronto and Montreal became the centers of trade for Canada, leaving Halifax to be a city dependent mostly on the military rather than industry".

A wiki article popped into my head that I had read one time about the old Cotton Mill on Robie St. where by 1891 "...the mill found it difficult to compete with much larger textile mills in Montreal and Toronto and provided historians with a classic example of the difficulty of Maritime firms to compete with larger Canadian competitors".

It's just one example but it supports your theory...

[Phalanx]

Regarding the population shifts, a few thoughts...

The late 18th/early 19th century saw lots of changes. The CPR was completed, opening up much of central Canada to increased settlement, and making large scale industry more viable to transport large volumes of goods and resources without access to large bodies of water.

Large scale shipbuilding would also shift dramatically from (relative) small, wooden sailing vessels, which the local industry thrived on, to large, iron hulled steamers.

The Bank of Nova Scotia and what would become RBC both moved their headquarters from Halifax to points west, which I imagine would have had a pretty big impact on the local financial industry.

As for Vancouver... raw resources, shipping, and the Klondike Gold Rush all happened around that time. Vancouver's population started to surge around then, and I guess it just reached some kind of self-sustaining critical mass.