Winnipeg Goldeyes

[esquire]

^ Good point. And let's remember that a good chunk of that land along Lombard and Portage E. is owned by Richardson companies, which are partners in TNS. So that alone would tell you things have the potential of working out around there.

[biguc]

That's also a good point. Honestly, this could be the catalyst that turns that area from a wasteland of parking lots into a lynchpin connecting Portage to the East Exchange to The Forks. It doesn't need to happen anytime soon, but in 20 years I wouldn't complain.

[buzzg]

I say let The Forks and the Exchange (and Richardson lol) continue their growth and do what is working and on the horizon over there.

If the arena needs to be replaced in 20 years or less, start planning with Portage Place now. Tear down the Air Canada building which is awful and build the new arena on that block. It's larger N-S, same E-W but I would shut down Carlton and build over it, integrating the arena into the Free Press building similar to what the Detroit Lions did with Ford Field*. With Portage Place presumably opening up the streets again (even if this current plan doesn't happen) at some point, losing that block of Carlton would be negligible. Then TNS stays close to their current empire, and all the hospitality and businesses that have been built up around it wouldn't have to shut down. Because let's face it, even 20 years from now if we have a new arena district near The Forks, the majority of the restaurants and bars in the SHED would not survive having no events.

*Ford Field integrated a huge old department store warehouse into the building, it's exposed into the dome. Most of the suites and club bars are actually in the old warehouse, it's very cool. Ironically, the store was called Hudson's and it was on Woodward Ave.

[H2man]

Haven't been around Shaw Park in a long time but was there today and I was reminded what a gem and location that is for a ball park. Sure wish them well in keeping this institution alive. Still a great park with a hell of a view and location, and is accessible to everyone from a socio-economic point of view.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by H2man

Haven't been around Shaw Park in a long time but was there today and I was reminded what a gem and location that is for a ball park. Sure wish them well in keeping this institution alive. Still a great park with a hell of a view and location, and is accessible to everyone from a socio-economic point of view.

Exactly!

[Ando]

The ballpark is great. But it caters to an increasingly shrinking clientele and right now it’s like using the Taj Mahal to keep your gardening implements, given the quality of ball. It also involves a subsidy via the revenue from adjacent parking lots. A more appropriate 2-3000 seat stadium could be built elsewhere. Not sure an arena would be the answer but it would be a exciting site for innovative development of some kind.

[esquire]

^ I take your point, the ballpark was an important amenity and statement for downtown when it was built, but it does feel as though it is not as vital as it once was. That said, it's probably not even at the halfway point of its lifespan, and it's not as though demand for land around there is through the roof yet.

I think there is some merit to letting the ballpark stay there for another 20 years and then revisit it once more of the neighbouring lots have been filled in. Then at that point a smaller replacement facility could be built somewhere else and the land cleared for something more ideal.

[buzzg]

Thing is at the end of the day, a city our size needs an amenity like this and there isn't anything even remotely close to it elsewhere here. Is it the "best" use of the land – I would say currently yes, but in perpetuity, no. When we get to the point that surface lots all over downtown are so scarce and the rest of The Forks is nearly built out that the current use outweighs the potential value, then we can start the ballpark relocation conversation. I think we're 20+ away from that.

Also, I think (if they survive) as more and more people move downtown, attendance will start to go up again, and you'll get those attendees patronizing some nearby businesses for a night out. The core demo is currently young families who often don't go for food/drinks before or after, but you can go to a Goldeyes game for cheaper than a movie ticket – it's a great evening out in summer.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

you can go to a Goldeyes game for cheaper than a movie ticket – it's a great evening out in summer.

Minor quibble. The Goldeyes have a reputation for being cheap entertainment but they aren't all that cheap... the cheapest seat is around $20 once you factor in all the fees. And it only goes up from there.

What is a movie ticket these days, like $12 or $14? You aren't going to a Goldeyes game for that price.

I realize Goldeyes tickets are not that exorbitant, but considering you are paying to see basically the lowest level of pro baseball there is, they're on the high side.

[Bdog]

I find it a bit ironic that we're already talking about replacing this stadium that's barely 20 years old. It's one of the attractions that brings families in to downtown from all corners of the city, and livens up that are for many nights a year. Not to mention the spillover benefits to the exchange and St. Boniface on game nights. Maybe prices went up, but a couple years ago went with the family for $14 a ticket taxes in. I mean, if this were the last developable lot in the area, sure it could be up for discussion. But there's literally parking lots in every direction from here. Are people going to pay $400000 for condos in what might be the nosiest bend on the mainline? Let's wait until air-brake technology improves a little before we consider this seriously

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Are people going to pay $400000 for condos in what might be the nosiest bend on the mainline? Let's wait until air-brake technology improves a little before we consider this seriously

I actually believe that it is the curve of the rails against the steel wheels that causes the noise, so unless they straighten out that curve (wont happen), it will always be noisy.

[bomberjet]

It's the wheels grinding on the rail.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Biff

I actually believe that it is the curve of the rails against the steel wheels that causes the noise, so unless they straighten out that curve (wont happen), it will always be noisy.

Thanks!

I've lived near a rail line before, and got used to the rumble and vibration after a short period. That high pitched squeal, I'm not sure I could get used to.

[cllew]

I am surprised that CN has not installed rail oiler/greasers in the general area of both ends of the curve to reduce the noise. I'd hate to be staying at the Fairmont Hotel and listening to that at night.

Other class 1 railways use them to reduce wheel and rail flange wear on curves and as a bonus reduce noise. Maybe it will take a few calls to the 1-888 CN community contact line from building owners in the area to make it happen.

[Ando]

I very much doubt that attendance is going to go up in any significant way. There are are increasingly too many options for that to happen. The CSL and junior hockey are big draws for families and kids and frankly are more relatable to most than a bunch of marginal baseball players. No one is saying the park should come down in the immediate future but it will eventually become redundant due to changing interests and better opportunities.

[esquire]

^ I find a Winnipeg Ice game 1000x more interesting than a Goldeyes game. But that said, the experience of sitting outside at the ballpark on a pleasant day having a cold one is still pretty good and I'm willing to do it once or twice a year.

I expect the Goldeyes to keep chugging along until the American Association falls apart. Due to geography and distance from other leagues/teams, pro baseball will then end here. At that point the redevelopment discussion can begin. (And it could happen sooner than some might think, the St. Paul Saints were one of the flagship teams of the AA and they left the league last year.)

[drew]

Hockey seasons and Baseball seasons don't really compete with each other.

That said, there is a lot of cross over between the two sports in terms of people who play hockey in the winter and baseball in the summer, so fans in the stands will be there regardless.

And as esquire eluded to, the fan experience is totally different. My kids definitely prefer to go to Goldeyes's games versus Jets games. And 1 Jets ticket will cover admission for our whole family to see the Goldeyes. The equivalent cost of the other Jets ticket will keep us fed and hydrated too.

[Ando]

Hockey seasons can overlap in particular if you are talking playoffs. Soccer season definitely overlaps. Many more kids are playing soccer. There must be a reason Goldeyes attendance was 323,000 in 2004 and 219,000 in 2018.

[drew]

^ nobody watches soccer though.

[Ando]

True, it’s only the world’s most popular sport.