PHILADELPHIA | THE LAUREL @ 1911 Walnut | 604 FT | 48 FLOORS - Page 32

BenKatzPhillytoParis · #**621** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 2:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boku

I'm not sure my eyes can roll back further than they are right now.

Guys, let's try to cut the sarcasm. Interested in what the real proposal will be. I just don't get why they lowered the height before any Registered Community Organization like CCRA officially weighed in. That makes no sense to me. For all we know, they might not have had trouble with them. If the 600' plan was really what they thought was the best and most financially viable, why would they defer to individual neighbors in changing it before getting the input of those who actually have standing?

Bariscos · #**622** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 3:30 PM**

My most passive-aggressive thanks (I did live in Seattle for 7 years) to those who are willing to put on a crazy shit-show when legit developers decide to take part in our usually awesome forum. Boo!

I love the designs and hope it barely changes. I hope that proper assessment is done and that SLC does its best to do whatever is best to please everybody that lives in that neighborhood (YIMBY's & NIMBY's & Dont Carer's). And I apologize that this forum is not currently representative of the conversations I have been reading over the past 4 1/2 years.

Can somebody PM me when the new designs are put up? I'm avoiding this thread until then.

summersm343 · #**623** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 4:07 PM**

Yes, and that's about the end of that.

I was foolish enough to get caught up in this dumb argument as well. I think it's about time this conversation ends for now. Clearly everything that needs to be said has been said. At this point, the conversation doesn't need to go any further until more information is released.

Clearly everyone has their preferences and their thoughts on what should happen to the site, but when we're getting to the point of borderline verbally abusing developers (you know who you are), I think we're taking it A LITTLE too far. The developer is nice enough to come on here, and include the forum in their decisions. Let's treat them with respect.

As for now, any further conversation which is going over the top will automatically be put to a halt, infractions will be sent out, and the thread will be locked if need be. Let's keep things civil.

Thanks

Zoot · #**624** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 4:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Yes, and that's about the end of that.

I was foolish enough to get caught up in this dumb argument as well. I think it's about time this conversation ends for now. Clearly everything that needs to be said has been said. At this point, the conversation doesn't need to go any further until more information is released.

Clearly everyone has their preferences and their thoughts on what should happen to the site, but when we're getting to the point of borderline verbally abusing developers (you know who you are), I think we're taking it A LITTLE too far. The developer is nice enough to come on here, and include the forum in their decisions. Let's treat them with respect.

As for now, any further conversation which is going over the top will automatically be put to a halt, infractions will be sent out, and the thread will be locked if need be. Let's keep things civil.

Thanks

It's absolutely NOT a dumb argument and it's unfortunate that the moderator is inserting his opinion and then asking for an end of discussion.

I took a break from this page over the past few days as so many comments annoy me. I won't bring some of them back up, but I want to remind everyone that that the $1.6M abatement cost is total baloney. The costs exist whether the building gets renovated OR demolished. You can't demolish a building until the hazardous materials are properly abated!

summersm343 · #**625** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 4:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoot

It's absolutely NOT a dumb argument and it's unfortunate that the moderator is inserting his opinion and then asking for an end of discussion.

I took a break from this page over the past few days as so many comments annoy me. I won't bring some of them back up, but I want to remind everyone that that the $1.6M abatement cost is total baloney. The costs exist whether the building gets renovated OR demolished. You can't demolish a building until the hazardous materials are properly abated!

I'm perfectly fine with the conversation going on, but when I have to start deleting comments due to personal attacks, I think it's going a little too far. That's why I'm asking for an end of discussion. Clearly this conversation gets some a little too heated and they can't control their temper in a professional manner.

Knight Hospitaller · #**626** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 4:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

I'm perfectly fine with the conversation going on, but when I have to start deleting comments due to personal attacks, I think it's going a little too far. That's why I'm asking for an end of discussion. Clearly this conversation gets some a little too heated and they can't control their temper in a professional manner.

I'm not suggesting an end to the debate. The horse we've been beating is already dead so I suppose that it can't do any more harm. However, as I noted before, we need more specifics to really say anything of substance. We'll get that if we wait a couple of weeks. There are only so many ways of arguing our general positions.

Justin7 · #**627** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 5:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Clearly everyone has their preferences and their thoughts on what should happen to the site, but when we're getting to the point of borderline verbally abusing developers (you know who you are), I think we're taking it A LITTLE too far. The developer is nice enough to come on here, and include the forum in their decisions. Let's treat them with respect.

It was stated civilly and without insult. The fact that you would delete the post makes it clear that this is a forum for cheerleading rather than real discussion.

iheartphilly · #**628** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 6:05 PM**

This forum is not a cheer-leading forum. All of us praise and criticize projects that we are interested in. The topic of preservation of historic building is always a hot and controversial topic.

Bottom line regarding the Rittenhouse historic buildings in previous discussion is that we can all agree to disagree.

allovertown · #**629** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 6:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Clearly everyone has their preferences and their thoughts on what should happen to the site, but when we're getting to the point of borderline verbally abusing developers (you know who you are), I think we're taking it A LITTLE too far. The developer is nice enough to come on here, and include the forum in their decisions. Let's treat them with respect.

Hmm. So the developer comes here and says an effort isn't even being made to preserve at least one of the buildings because it didn't deserve to be designated historic in the first place and another won't be saved because the cost is too high. He tries to curtail discussion by saying efforts to save them would cost Philadelphia his "iconic project. " Others disagree and you delete their posts. And your description of this is "we're being involved in the decision "? That's a funny way of looking at it.

Also. You branding my comment to Dustin Downey as a personal attack is ludicrous. You're personal biases are clearly showing.

Arch+Eng · #**630** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 7:18 PM**

Lil' Dallas...HERE WE COME

Cro Burnham · #**631** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 7:25 PM**

Boxbot, NEW THREADS PLEASE!

"Skepticism about moderator impartiality" thread

"Unrestricted personal attack" thread

"Let's make Philly Dallas" thread

Knight Hospitaller · #**632** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 7:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

Lil' Dallas...HERE WE COME

I'd like to see you stand up and say that at the Linc.

summersm343 · #**633** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 7:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allovertown

Hmm. So the developer comes here and says an effort isn't even being made to preserve at least one of the buildings because it didn't deserve to be designated historic in the first place and another won't be saved because the cost is too high. He tries to curtail discussion by saying efforts to save them would cost Philadelphia his "iconic project. " Others disagree and you delete their posts. And your description of this is "we're being involved in the decision "? That's a funny way of looking at it.

Also. You branding my comment to Dustin Downey as a personal attack is ludicrous. You're personal biases are clearly showing.

It wasn't you. I just deleted all slightly hostile posts towards the developer. There were more. I deleted only posts directed at the developer, none that challenged my viewpoints or anybody else on this forum.

summersm343 · #**634** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 7:56 PM**

Man you guys are extremely hostile lol.

techchallenger · #**635** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 7:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allovertown

Hmm. So the developer comes here and says an effort isn't even being made to preserve at least one of the buildings because it didn't deserve to be designated historic in the first place and another won't be saved because the cost is too high. He tries to curtail discussion by saying efforts to save them would cost Philadelphia his "iconic project. " Others disagree and you delete their posts. And your description of this is "we're being involved in the decision "? That's a funny way of looking at it.

Also. You branding my comment to Dustin Downey as a personal attack is ludicrous. You're personal biases are clearly showing.

I'm confused as well, but then I didn't see the post that was deleted. I'm also not understanding why other forum members are complaining about the existence of a discussion on an internet forum. Although I've disagreed with many posts I've read, I have thoroughly enjoyed and been informed by the read and I think the importance of the discussion has been made especially clear by the project developer himself swinging by and participating in it.

allovertown · #**636** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 8:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Boxbot, NEW THREADS PLEASE!

"Skepticism about moderator impartiality" thread

"Unrestricted personal attack" thread

"Let's make Philly Dallas" thread

Haha perhaps I am going too far. I'll check myself out of this discussion until there is more information.

Before I do, I will add something in fairness to the developer. While I am not as optimistic about this project as I was in the past, due to recent decisions (reducing height/density, an unwillingness to preserve even the facade of the Warwick), much of this disappointment lies with the near neighbors who had input on these decisions.

After the Boyd tower actually had neighbors coming together to hire a better architect to design a better tower that was actually taller but was situated in a way that made everyone happy I had gotten foolishly optimistic as to how well the negotiation over this tower would progress.

With a location this desirable SLC would obviously prefer to go as tall as made economic sense. That ideal height for maximizing return vs costs likely sits at even higher than 600 ft. They are however, not permitted to build that tall, so to me the clear compromise existed that SLC could rehab the existing Sansom St properties, helping to create a new dynamic Philadelphia street and in return they would be allowed to build taller to offset those costs.

That the neighbors instead are seemingly negotiating to shorten the tower at the cost of demolishing these buildings is infuriating. So it's not as though I think this is entirely within SLC's power to control or entirely their fault. I just think that the decisions being made here are bad ones regardless of the reason they are being made. It was not my intention to attack anyone personally.

allovertown · #**637** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 8:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

It wasn't you. I just deleted all slightly hostile posts towards the developer. There were more. I deleted only posts directed at the developer, none that challenged my viewpoints or anybody else on this forum.

Fair enough. And while I do think you're at least slightly biased in this regard I understand the delicate balance you have to walk and think that overall you do a great job and I'm appreciative of all the work you put in. I guess we're a surprisingly rowdy crowd!

boxbot · #**638** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 8:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Boxbot, NEW THREADS PLEASE!

"Skepticism about moderator impartiality" thread

"Unrestricted personal attack" thread

"Let's make Philly Dallas" thread

Deleted posts! Accusations! Paranoia! This thread's got everything.

summersm343 · #**639** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 9:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allovertown

Fair enough. And while I do think you're at least slightly biased in this regard I understand the delicate balance you have to walk and think that overall you do a great job and I'm appreciative of all the work you put in. I guess we're a surprisingly rowdy crowd!

Thank you. I admit I am a little biased in this discussion but am trying to fight my human nature and not be so. Since I do have moderator status, I always try to play middle ground. As I said, it wasn't necessarily you, but anyone who responded to the developer in a negative manner I felt I needed to delete since some were a little over the top. I would like to encourage more developers to post on this board such as Brook Lenfest (W Hotel) and Dustin Downey have done. They add a lot of truthful and great information into the discussions. I do not want to scare them off.

Thank you for understanding.

RonnieStevens · #**640** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 9:21 PM**

The amount of action this specific thread has gotten over the last 5 days speaks to what a prominent location SLC have on their hands. This is definitely a confirmation that you can do big things on this piece of land