Confederation Line West LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[TheMatth69]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

It doesn't really cost extra to have elevators stop at half floors, and the stairs and escalators (if even necessary) are only half flights. The beauty of a split level configuration is that a transfer is one level away at most, say if you have to get off an Algonquin-bound train to get on a Moodie bound short line. This involves going up and down to full levels in the current configuration. A transfer from a short line to a downtown-bound line only is half a level.

I'm thinking of a split-level three-track version of Montreal's Lionel-Groulx station:

It's an interesting configuration, but they'd have to rethink completely the tunnel portal, switches and layout of tracks East and West of the station and that could make the price tag rise by a big margin. This plan would work perfectly if the station was underground...

Talking about underground I'm still very angry at the cities plan to build 7 stations on the West extension in open air trenchs ! It looks like they didn't take any lessons from stage 1. Tunney's Pasture is for now the only open air trenched station, but taking the LRT almost every day I can also say that it's by far the coldest. Air ... especially cold air (being denser than warmer air) seeps down in the trench making the station colder. Add our dominant West/East wind and you have the perfect conditions to freeze your balls of.
I don't think that building a simple concrete slab is too much to ask. No even talking about how giant holes in the ground can scar the face of a city even more in a linear park where people walk, run and play everyday. They should at least cover New Orchard, Cleary, Lincoln Fields and Dominion.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

It doesn't really cost extra to have elevators stop at half floors, and the stairs and escalators (if even necessary) are only half flights. The beauty of a split level configuration is that a transfer is one level away at most, say if you have to get off an Algonquin-bound train to get on a Moodie bound short line. This involves going up and down to full levels in the current configuration. A transfer from a short line to a downtown-bound line only is half a level.

I'm thinking of a split-level three-track version of Montreal's Lionel-Groulx station:

There would also have to be some way to transfer to the bus loop (as the City is intent on bus loops rather than just having the buses stop on Carling Avenue).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

There would also have to be some way to transfer to the bus loop (as the City is intent on bus loops rather than just having the buses stop on Carling Avenue).

But then where would the cars go?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

It's an interesting configuration, but they'd have to rethink completely the tunnel portal, switches and layout of tracks East and West of the station and that could make the price tag rise by a big margin. This plan would work perfectly if the station was underground...

Talking about underground I'm still very angry at the cities plan to build 7 stations on the West extension in open air trenchs ! It looks like they didn't take any lessons from stage 1. Tunney's Pasture is for now the only open air trenched station, but taking the LRT almost every day I can also say that it's by far the coldest. Air ... especially cold air (being denser than warmer air) seeps down in the trench making the station colder. Add our dominant West/East wind and you have the perfect conditions to freeze your balls of.
I don't think that building a simple concrete slab is too much to ask. No even talking about how giant holes in the ground can scar the face of a city even more in a linear park where people walk, run and play everyday. They should at least cover New Orchard, Cleary, Lincoln Fields and Dominion.

I agree. If Lincoln Fields would have been designed to be underground, that might have been an interesting configuration. Great job with the diagram Kitchissippi.

A couple more underground stations would have been nice. We have no problems building tunnels where we need them, but it's somehow very difficult to go all the way and build subway stations.

I do wonder if the width of the Tunney's trench might amplify the air circulation making it ultra cold?

For Cleary and New Orchard, the tracks will be covered. It will only be opened above the platform. Check out the rendering on page 16 showing the platform level. Don't know if that will help prevent the Tunney's effect.

https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/do...s_20191203.pdf

It would have been nice if Cleary and New Orchard would have been fully underground since they are already part of a tunnel. Same with Lincoln Fields considering how busy it will be with people transferring spurs.

I hope one day they start covering up the trench along Scott, creating a linear park linking the two sides of Line 1. Westboro and Dominion will probably be some of the busiest stations outside of Downtown and transfers, so they should have placed a little more effort into cover them, at least partially.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by sseguin

You can view on O-Train Fans the Confederation Line & Stage 2 LRT Update - City Council - May 13, 2020

https://www.otrainfans.ca/news/confe...il-may-13-2020

Flyover video of construction progress O-Train Stage 2, Confederation Line 1 and Trillium Line 2.

• Video Link

[Richard Eade]

Looks as if I may have been wrong about the Lincoln Fields Station. From the rendering in the video, it appears that the land around the station has been brought up to the level of Carling Avenue - leaving the trains in a 'trench'. This means that the station will sit at the new grade level and customers will descend one level to the train of their choice.

Does this mean that the Sir JAM Parkway is going to have a retaining wall along the east side? And a pedestrian bridge over the Parkway to the shopping mall parking lot? Or will people be directed along an elevated MUP along the west side of the station back to Carling if they want to go west?

It would be nice if the MUP from the west of the Parkway was brought up and over to the station's west entrance and then continue south under Carling Avenue. This would get that MUP away from the Parkway's ramps. Since the tracks are moving east under Carling, there should be room for a MUP between the tracks and the Parkway.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Looks as if I may have been wrong about the Lincoln Fields Station. From the rendering in the video, it appears that the land around the station has been brought up to the level of Carling Avenue - leaving the trains in a 'trench'. This means that the station will sit at the new grade level and customers will descend one level to the train of their choice.

Does this mean that the Sir JAM Parkway is going to have a retaining wall along the east side? And a pedestrian bridge over the Parkway to the shopping mall parking lot? Or will people be directed along an elevated MUP along the west side of the station back to Carling if they want to go west?

It would be nice if the MUP from the west of the Parkway was brought up and over to the station's west entrance and then continue south under Carling Avenue. This would get that MUP away from the Parkway's ramps. Since the tracks are moving east under Carling, there should be room for a MUP between the tracks and the Parkway.

So far, there are no plans to connect the station with Lincoln Fields mall via a pedestrian overpass/bridge. RioCan will likely have to build its own bridge if they ever want to be directly connected (like Brigil at Trim).

The plan at the moment is to direct transit riders towards Carling to cross the Parkway AFAIK.

[sseguin]

Stage 2 LRT - Get Involved - Share your Snapshot Updates

The O-Train Fans Snapshot Updates (https://www.otrainfans.ca/snapshot) are our way of documenting, archiving and sharing the history of the O-Train station construction sites.

Over the coming years, we wish to continue this important project which also helps to inform citizens and residents of the work and progress being made at all of the station work sites. As the territory that the new extensions cover stretches across most of the city, O-Train Fans has developed a plan to enhance our coverage which would increase the frequency of updates.

The answer... our loyal rail fans and followers!

We want you to be part of this important time in Ottawa's history, by volunteering your time in helping us visit the station sites, taking photos and writing short descriptions of what is going on, and what is being shown in the images.

All you need is a camera or smartphone to take photos and ideally some basic photo editing skills (to adjust or enhance the photos taken).

If you'd like to know more, please follow the link : https://www.otrainfans.ca/news/stage...apshot-updates

Thank you very much for your time and consideration.

[sseguin]

Snapshot Update for Lincoln Fields Station - May 18, 2020. (by Marc Crooks)
https://www.otrainfans.ca/snapshot-u...ds-may-18-2020

----

STAGE 2 LRT - GET INVOLVED - SHARE YOUR SNAPSHOT UPDATES
https://www.otrainfans.ca/news/stage...apshot-updates

[J.OT13]

A new version of GeoOttawa has been released, which includes an updated, more detailed, version of the "Rail Implementation Office" layer.

https://maps.ottawa.ca/geoOttawaBeta/

Notable changes to the track geometry:

• Tracks under the Byron Strip come together in the tunnel and spread apart for the centre platform stations, as opposed to previous version where they stayed apart throughout the Byron alignment;
• The open trench of Cleary and New Orchard stations are much longer (200 meters and 175 meters respectively)*, which increases the impact on the park significantly;
• New Lincoln Fields configuration, with one side platform and one centre platform;
• Moodie platforms are offset;
• Modified configuration of Moodie Yard tracks.

*My interpretation based on the graphic.

Other notes

• Significant storage capacity at Baseline (6 to 8 double trains based on track length);
• Queensview now has side platforms, which is not a change from the previous version, but a change from February 2018 renderings;

See O-Train Fans map for previous version.

https://www.otrainfans.ca/system-map

[OCCheetos]

A few other small things I've spotted:

• Crossover moved from west of Westboro to west of Dominion
• The pocket track east of Blair is staying, and looks to be an actual track and not just futureproofing.
• At Baseline, I suspect there will only be two storage spaces (the two innermost tracks) while the longer segments shown are being left for the future. I agree with the 8 train estimate (in its ultimate configuration).
• Place d'Orleans diamond crossover replaced with two connector tracks

Time to update to update the OTrainFans map! Maybe there'll be potential for some kind of historical RIO data viewer feature or something. Whenever I do finish updating it, it'll also have the proposed Barrhaven alignment(s).

Hopefully Stage 2 South is updated soon as well.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

A few other small things I've spotted:

• Crossover moved from west of Westboro to west of Dominion
• The pocket track east of Blair is staying, and looks to be an actual track and not just futureproofing.
• At Baseline, I suspect there will only be two storage spaces (the two innermost tracks) while the longer segments shown are being left for the future. I agree with the 8 train estimate (in its ultimate configuration).
• Place d'Orleans diamond crossover replaced with two connector tracks

Time to update to update the OTrainFans map! Maybe there'll be potential for some kind of historical RIO data viewer feature or something. Whenever I do finish updating it, it'll also have the proposed Barrhaven alignment(s).

Hopefully Stage 2 South is updated soon as well.

I can see why they moved the crossover from Westboro to Dominion. Westboro is relatively close to the Tunney's crossover, and the new Dominion location is the last switch for over 3 kilometres before you hit the Lincoln Fields switches. There must be a reason why they didn't want one in the tunnel.

Pocket track east of Blair, I can't see the difference from the last version honestly. I feel like it has changed from 2 versions ago, but I can't recall for sure.

For Place d'Orleans, the new switches seem much further (twice the distance maybe) than the diamond originally proposed. I assume this one is mostly a cost cutting measure, though I don't think it will impact service in anyway.

What's the advantage/disadvantage of diamond vs connector?

I appreciate your work on the O-Train Fans map. Historical data would be great if possible!

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Pocket track east of Blair, I can't see the difference from the last version honestly. I feel like it has changed from 2 versions ago, but I can't recall for sure.

I think there was some speculation about whether or not it would be present in the final plan or if it was just a proposed pocket (like the one at Limebank, or between Hurdman and Tremblay). The markings on the current data suggests (to me) that it will be an actual pocket track.

For Place d'Orleans, the new switches seem much further (twice the distance maybe) than the diamond originally proposed. I assume this one is mostly a cost cutting measure, though I don't think it will impact service in anyway.

What's the advantage/disadvantage of diamond vs connector?

Diamond crossovers have higher maintenance requirements because of the diamond, I think.

I appreciate your work on the O-Train Fans map. Historical data would be great if possible!

Happy to do it! If nothing else, all of the old versions of data are still hosted on GitHub.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

A new version of GeoOttawa has been released, which includes an updated, more detailed, version of the "Rail Implementation Office" layer.

https://maps.ottawa.ca/geoOttawaBeta/

Notable changes to the track geometry:

• Tracks under the Byron Strip come together in the tunnel and spread apart for the centre platform stations, as opposed to previous version where they stayed apart throughout the Byron alignment;
• The open trench of Cleary and New Orchard stations are much longer (200 meters and 175 meters respectively)*, which increases the impact on the park significantly;
• New Lincoln Fields configuration, with one side platform and one centre platform;
• Moodie platforms are offset;
• Modified configuration of Moodie Yard tracks.

*My interpretation based on the graphic.

Clearly the newly re-designed tunnel under the Byron strip was a cost-cutting measure to make the tunnel narrower for much of its length and reduce the amount "cover" in cut-and-cover. It will be interesting to see renderings with this new configuration, how it will impact the park and how entrances will be configured.

The offset platforms at Moodie are quite unique. Very tight space to work with, so I can understand why that change was made. I also just noticed that the south platform is wider (by about 2 meters) than the north platform.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

A new version of GeoOttawa has been released, which includes an updated, more detailed, version of the "Rail Implementation Office" layer.

https://maps.ottawa.ca/geoOttawaBeta/

..............

Good Day.

Some changes, some no changes.

Nice to see they are keeping GeoOttawa, since Adobe Flash Player is soon to disappear.
I prefer this map to the one in stage-2-light-rail-transit-project (which, BTW, has also been similarly updated).
I dislike constrained viewing windows.

The Blair to flyover double-ended pocket is still indicated, but..... ?? who knows.

Belfast Rd Yard is still incomplete as to additional trackwork already in place.
Main clue - second launch track and platform south of the first one, along the north edge of the heavy maint bldg.

Trim intersection and plan is still incomplete - not surprisingly, since planning is still incomplete.

The cut-and-cover tunnel from Dominion to LincolnFields shows as a double box structure (IE: a center support wall or pillars).
The narrowing is no surprise, really, as you note for costs naturally, but also probably that the previous iteration was most likely just to get it onto the map,
and was easier to draw in straight with no reason to push prediction of the plans.

LincolnFields - wow, major change. Must study.

As you note, Algonquin is a major change-up, showing not only the center storage tracks in and to the north of the platform space,
but now also storage tracks to the outsides of the platform tracks, fully filling the two outer tunnels of the three tunnel box.
The platform still seems to be indicated as entirely within the existing tunnel box, and no indication of the new access/gating structure to the south. (??)

Bayshore station ?? the platforms are well beside the Mall......is the placement of access/gating still open ?

Moodie LMSF - major change as it looks as if they have indicated putting in the mainline tracks beside the 417, on the south side of the storage tracks/bldg.,
with open space between for the ultimate storage build-out.

And the Limebank pocket track is still indicated, even though there was information previously noted that this would be removed in the next maps update.

So.... changes, and changes yet to be, as plans change, and change again.

Interesting times for a construction project already well underway.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

And the Limebank pocket track is still indicated, even though there was information previously noted that this would be removed in the next maps update.

E/W and South are updated separately. The Bowesville crossover shouldn't be there either.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

E/W and South are updated separately. The Bowesville crossover shouldn't be there either.

Good Day.

Ahhh.... nice to know - Thx muchly !

[TheMatth69]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

A new version of GeoOttawa has been released, which includes an updated, more detailed, version of the "Rail Implementation Office" layer.

https://maps.ottawa.ca/geoOttawaBeta/

Notable changes to the track geometry:

• Tracks under the Byron Strip come together in the tunnel and spread apart for the centre platform stations, as opposed to previous version where they stayed apart throughout the Byron alignment;
• The open trench of Cleary and New Orchard stations are much longer (200 meters and 175 meters respectively)*, which increases the impact on the park significantly;
• New Lincoln Fields configuration, with one side platform and one centre platform;
• Moodie platforms are offset;
• Modified configuration of Moodie Yard tracks.

*My interpretation based on the graphic.

Other notes

• Significant storage capacity at Baseline (6 to 8 double trains based on track length);
• Queensview now has side platforms, which is not a change from the previous version, but a change from February 2018 renderings;

See O-Train Fans map for previous version.

https://www.otrainfans.ca/system-map

So we went from a full tunnel with underground stations, to partially underground with open air station, to even more open air stations and narrower tunnel ?
Is this a joke ? Definitely a cost cutting measure...
This city thinks big, plans smaller, acts tiny. If you don't have the money for your ambitions, don't do anything.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

So we went from a full tunnel with underground stations, to partially underground with open air station, to even more open air stations and narrower tunnel ?
Is this a joke ? Definitely a cost cutting measure...
This city thinks big, plans smaller, acts tiny. If you don't have the money for your ambitions, don't do anything.

Good Day.

Well, yes and no.

The Cleary station was to have been mostly buried, but when it was moved to Sherbourne station, it was open-pit, as was NewOrchard from the start. What has changed is that the length of the pit has elongated to future-proof the platform length. This is not to say that I agree or concur with the open-pit station concept - IMO most of the platform could have been roofed/buried and still retain the cheaper advantage of less ventilation requirement. But.....

As for the tunnel width - as I mentioned above, and previously, it was and is always my opinion that the GeoOttawa indication was basically just a placeholder until now. Now they have a first cut at construction designs, which indicate how and where the cut-and-cover will align.

The people of McKellar Park and Skead St. saw to it that they did not end up with a Scott St. Trench. Depending on your point of view - for good or for bad - for economics, appeal, appearance, performance, noise and sight pollution, etc. I still think Scott St. should have had at least some ...-and-cover applied to it, but that's just my opinion.

As for cheaping out, this has always been about cheaping out - right from before the start of Phase 1. Thank Jimbo for all of this. Remember - world clASS all the way !!!!

NoJoy!

[CityTech]

Is it really a big deal how much of a true tunnel it is? It's grade separated and has adequate capacity. Of all things to cheap out on, this is one of the best.