California High Speed Rail Thread

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Where in the world do you have successful HSR in a transit-hostile environment?

And if it doesn't matter, why are we even bothering with SF and LA? You could build 90% of the system at half the cost. The airports are nowhere near downtown either. Forget the tunnels and in-town construction and just end it short of the passes.

Well, so far every country rich enough to build HSR is also not pathologically opposed to public transportation. America is unique in this respect.

The reason California is "bothering" with LA and SF is because the law requires them to link those two destinations, and CA has a lot of political power vested in its inner cities. On the other hand, Brightline West and Texas Central are both stopping short of major downtowns, because it is very expensive and difficult to build those segments. As private companies they have decided the juice ain't worth the squeeze, especially when the downtown is weak and will not actually generate much ridership; an inner or mid suburban station is good enough.

I think they're right in a pure business sense; they can get the ridership they need even if they don't go all the way downtown. So for those of us who want to see HSR investment benefit inner cities, we need to grapple with this reality. Orlando actually is an interesting case here; Brightline was set to take a freeway alignment south of the airport, and the city/county agreed to share the costs with Brightline to do a better and more costly alignment that served the convention center, Universal, etc.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And if it doesn't matter, why are we even bothering with SF and LA? You could build 90% of the system at half the cost.

Bay and LA commuter rail being massively upgraded as part of the HSR approaches.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Bay and LA commuter rail being massively upgraded as part of the HSR approaches.

This is a key point I think a lot of people are missing. Commuter rail is currently being expanded from Stockton to Sacramento (line comes from San Jose and also connects with CalTrain and, eventually, BART). That line will open next year. In 2027, the same line will also have a branch from Stockton to Merced where it will connect to the HSR. In 2031, an extension from Sacramento to Chico is projected to open. There is already commuter rail via the Capitol Corridor from Sacramento to the East Bay and San Jose.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by creamcityleo79

This is a key point I think a lot of people are missing.

I don't understand what that has to do with HSR. HSR isn't going to have more ridership bc commuter rail is expanding. The claim is that HSR's relative success is predicated on grabbing market share from airlines. A commuter train to Chico isn't going to have any impact.