Cities that belong in other states

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Cool, there are quite a few of these:

Kansas City, MO
Michigan City, IN
Nevada City, CA
Virginia City, NV
Missouri City, TX
Colorado City, AZ

Idaho Springs, CO


Any others?

There’s a Windsor and an Ontario in California.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It looks like only the Cape May area, south of Atlantic City, and the far western part of central Jersey that's close to Allentown are the only areas of the state outside of the NYC and PHL CSAs. Allentown might be a newly created CSA, though.

That's incorrect. Cape May County is a part of the Philadelphia CSA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Valley

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Cool, there are quite a few of these:

Kansas City, MO
Michigan City, IN
Nevada City, CA
Virginia City, NV
Missouri City, TX
Colorado City, AZ

Idaho Springs, CO


Any others?

Well, it's not a state, but how about this one?

Panama City, FL



I can't think of anywhere in PA that is named with the outside state "_____ City" format you're looking for.

Near Pittsburgh are two outside state-named towns:

- Ohioville, PA (tiny little borough along the Ohio border)
- California, PA (Monongahela Valley industrial/college town; named after a coal mine, which was named after the state)

There's also an Indiana, PA (coal mining/college town), but it existed before the state of Indiana existed. Named for the Indiana Grant of 1768, which granted Iroquois lands in PA to the British. The state of Indiana is actually named after the later, Indiana Territory, which was named after this Indiana area in Pennsylvania.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by north 42

There’s a Windsor and an Ontario in California.

There are literally thousands of same city names scattered across the globe... but Steely is asking for cities named after STATES in which those cities are not located.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

If you think this is bad come visit one of the 15 Philly threads

You guys need a jail cell in your threads.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pj3000

There are literally thousands of same city names scattered across the globe... but Steely is asking for cities named after STATES in which those cities are not located.

Bingo!

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Specifically, I'm looking for "_____ City", where the blank is the name of a state that the city ain't in.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Philadelphia belongs in New Jersey.

It's the very reason for the state of Pennsylvania's existence, but an uninformed visitor to Philadelphia would barely know that it's the primate city of a state that stretches 300 miles to the west. Somewhat akin to the relation of NYC to the rest of New York state on a much smaller scale.

And among the very first attributes of Philadelphia that denizens cite about their city is not even integral to the city itself. Very often, the first thing a Philadelphia-area local mentions when talking about his city is its proximity to New York, followed by the Jersey shore.

I happen to think that Philadelphia is a great city on its own... but it always feels like locals want to almost immediately tout that NYC is 2 hours away or the shore is 60 miles away. It's clear that, at least subconsicously, they want to be part of Jersey.

Originally Posted by pj3000

Philadelphia feels much more tied to New Jersey than it is tied to the rest of PA, including the Lehigh Valley and south central PA. It really has nothing to do with an "East vs West" divide of Pennsylvania. The fact is that Philly more closely associates with south Jersey and up to NYC than it does with the vast majority of eastern PA even.

Across the Delaware River is Philly suburbs. While sprawl has stretched northward, it would be a very long shot to refer to the Lehigh Valley similarly. To say nothing of trying to make the same association with south central PA... I mean, you really think that Philadelphians think of York, Chambersburg, Shippensburg, etc. the same way they think of south Jersey in relation to their city/region?

And I'm not at all claiming that NJ is homogenous. Philly, due to its geographic location within the state of PA, its history, and its proximity to NYC wtih its massive pull, is just naturally going to be attracted away from the rest of its own state... and that force of attraction pulls it into NJ, way way way more than any notion of a cohesive "Piedmont PA" pulls it in the other direction.

It's tough because I do both agree and disagree with your statements.

While modern day Philadelphia would probably be far more progressive and better off if it were in the state of New Jersey, and in many ways Pennsylvania holds Philadelphia back, I do think Philadelphia and it's surrounding suburban counties in the state are quintessential Pennsylvania. The reality is that Pennsylvania just needs to show Philadelphia more respect. Philadelphia is quite literally where the state was founded, was the first state capital, is home to a lot of the state's and country's early history, and is the de facto #1 economic region of the state today. The lack of transit funding, highway cleaning and funding, public education funding for the city, lack of common sense business laws and regulations, and lack of common sense gun laws are just some of the ways the state holds Philadelphia (and really all of it's cities) back.

Philadelphia is certainly tied to South Jersey, and Camden, Burlington and Gloucester counties are heavily tied to the city.... and the South Jersey shore towns are chock full of beach houses owned by Philadelphian's or residents of the surrounding PA suburban counties... but the undoubted center of the region is Philadelphia, lower Montgomery County, and inner-Delaware County. The city, the airport, places like Media and Upper Darby in Delaware County, the Main Line (the wealthiest and most prestigious suburbs in not only the Philadelphia region, but all of Pennsylvania), King of Prussia, Conshohocken, Willow Grove/Abington/Jenkintown/Glenside area...sort-of everything within the rough circle created by I-476, the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and I-295 in South Jersey is the center of the Philadelphia region. The majority of that is within Pennsylvania.

Furthermore, the 6 Philadelphia counties in Pennsylvania in the Philadelphia MSA/CSA are 6 of the 10 largest counties in the state of Pennsylvania. The largest county is the city of Philadelphia. Two more of the largest counties in PA directly abut the Philadelphia Region - Lancaster and Lehigh Counties. That's over 5 Million in total population in the state in those 8 out of 10 largest Pennsylvania counties. That's literally 40% of the states population.

So yes, I would say Philadelphia is absolutely quintessential Pennsylvania and really acts as the center of Pennsylvania. It's the #1 economic hub and the most populous part of the state.

[Steely Dan]

I found some more:

Kansas City, MO
Michigan City, IN
Nevada City, CA
Virginia City, NV
Missouri City, TX
Colorado City, AZ
Michigan City, ND
Wyoming City, WV
Texas City, IL
Colorado City,TX
Nevada City, MT
Montana City, CO
Georgia City, MO



These are more common than I would've guessed, but most of 'em are pretty small piss-ant towns that are taking great liberties with the word "city".

[JManc]

I spent my early teenage years in Missouri City, TX

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Going back to this.

(in a vain attempt to quell the PA insanity)

Are there any other US cities that are named after a state that that they are not located in?

Specifically, I'm looking for "_____ City", where the blank is the name of a state that the city ain't in.

West New York, New Jersey
Delaware County, PA
Indiana County, PA
California, PA

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by edale

Not to shift gears from this delightful Philly drama, but I think a case could be made for Cincinnati belonging in Kentucky, or at least not belonging in Ohio. The airport is already in NKY,

I don't really know why there is such a fascination with this particular bi-state situation. Kansas City MO/KS, of course, is an unusual situation. But there are many examples of river cities with another state on the opposite bank.

Nobody talks about Memphis being opposite Arkansas, Louisville being opposite Indiana, etc. A visit to NYC via Newark Airport doesn't seem to boggle the minds of people like Cincinnati's metro airport being 10 miles southwest of the downtown in Boone County, KY.

But there seems to be something peculiar about the state of Kentucky, specifically, that sets people off. It seems that people around the country form pictures of what Kentucky is like from various pop things (not unlike Kansas forever being defined by The Wizard of Oz).

Most of Kentucky is completely nondescript. Gas stations. Walgreen's. CVS. Farms. Warehouses. Just like everywhere else.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by pj3000

You guys need a jail cell in your threads.

Hahaha sheesh. Philadelphia hasn’t had a holding cell in its stadiums in 20 years. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised though as people still bring up throwing snowballs at Santa Claus even though that happened in the 60s.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by summersm343

It's tough because I do both agree and disagree with your statements.

While modern day Philadelphia would probably be far more progressive and better off if it were in the state of New Jersey, and in many ways Pennsylvania holds Philadelphia back, I do think Philadelphia and it's surrounding suburban counties in the state are quintessential Pennsylvania. The reality is that Pennsylvania just needs to show Philadelphia more respect. Philadelphia is quite literally where the state was founded, was the first state capital, is home to a lot of the state's and country's early history, and is the de facto #1 economic region of the state today. The lack of transit funding, highway cleaning and funding, public education funding for the city, lack of common sense business laws and regulations, and lack of common sense gun laws are just some of the ways the state holds Philadelphia (and really all of it's cities) back.

Philadelphia is certainly tied to South Jersey, and Camden, Burlington and Gloucester counties are heavily tied to the city.... and the South Jersey shore towns are chock full of beach houses owned by Philadelphian's or residents of the surrounding PA suburban counties... but the undoubted center of the region is Philadelphia, lower Montgomery County, and inner-Delaware County. The city, the airport, places like Media and Upper Darby in Delaware County, the Main Line (the wealthiest and most prestigious suburbs in not only the Philadelphia region, but all of Pennsylvania), King of Prussia, Conshohocken, Willow Grove/Abington/Jenkintown/Glenside area...sort-of everything within the rough circle created by I-476, the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and I-295 in South Jersey is the center of the Philadelphia region. The majority of that is within Pennsylvania.

Furthermore, the 6 Philadelphia counties in Pennsylvania in the Philadelphia MSA/CSA are 6 of the 10 largest counties in the state of Pennsylvania. The largest county is the city of Philadelphia. Two more of the largest counties in PA directly abut the Philadelphia Region - Lancaster and Lehigh Counties. That's over 5 Million in total population in the state in those 8 out of 10 largest Pennsylvania counties. That's literally 40% of the states population.

So yes, I would say Philadelphia is absolutely quintessential Pennsylvania and really acts as the center of Pennsylvania. It's the #1 economic hub and the most populous part of the state.

Yeah, I get it. The thing is, I've never argued that Philadelphia is not quintessentially Pennsylvania. It is THE hub of PA, no doubt about it. As I started my first post on the topic... it's the reason for the state's existence.

I think you guys are missing the point of the thread and my subsequent posts. It's not an anti-Philly thing AT ALL. And I feel like I have to write this disclaimer... Philadelphia is one of my favorite cities. I have lots of family and friends who reside throughout the area, spending I spent one week per month living there for work for 3 years... so a quarter of my life for 3 years, I spent living in Philly. To me, it easily belongs among the top US cities. I know its and the state's history quite well... so, I definitely understand Philadelphia's position in Pennsylvania. And I get the seemingly knee-jerk defense reactions that some Philadelphians on here have if someone even mentions the city's name, based on the less than amicable relationship the rural parts of PA/PA state govt have with the city. And as EastSideHBG said above, "If you think this is bad come visit one of the 15 Philly threads"

The point of the thread: Cirrus inquired about which cities belong in other states "culturally speaking". And "What cities feel like they're in the wrong state?"

In present day, I think it is hard to argue that Philadelphia (meaning the city and its suburbs... which are strongly influenced by the city) is more associated culturally with, and thus influenced by, the NY-NJ metropolis and south NJ than it is with the rest of PA. So is it a bit flippant to say that Philadlephia "belongs in New Jersey"? Sure, but that's just the thread title. It's not a negative assessment of Philly; rather it based on its status and more metropolitan/cosmopolitan nature than what is found in the vast rural areas of PA, which yeah, make it feel like it might be in the "wrong" state. That's it.

To go a bit further, the meme that was posted about Philly not even thinking about Pittsburgh (to say nothing of thinking about all the smaller cities and towns outside of Philly's orbit) only supports this. Philly is not going to think much about the rest of the state. That's natural for a state's largest city.

But the big difference here is that while Philly is PA's largest city by far, it also tightly connected to one of the world's greatest (if not THE greatest) cities only 70 miles away. There is no doubt that NY/NJ exert outsized cultural influence on Philadelphia... and much more so than that exerted on it by the rest of the rather spread-out, largely rural state of PA.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by Quixote

I agree with pj3000. The fact that Allentown was and Mercer and Ocean Counties are part of the NYC CSA shows just how much NYC encroaches on territory that would ordinarily belong to Philly, which naturally puts Philly on the defensive. Also telling is the mention of South Jersey when people explain the Philly accept and how it differs from the NYC accent. Being in PA does seem pretty inconsequential. Heck, I think even DE (where Wilmington is) makes more sense culturally.

This is a rather odd comment, as PA is the 5th most populous state and extremely consequential by any measure.

It's certainly an overlooked state in some ways in the post-industrial era (although that's arguably changing of late in very recent years as decades of revitalization initiatives are really bearing fruit across the state). But Philly is inextricably what makes PA so prominent (along with Pittsburgh).

[Steely Dan]

PA is the only state that has:

Atlantic Ocean port (Philly)
Great Lakes port (Erie)
Great Rivers port (Pittsburgh)

It's the Keystone State for a reason!

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I don't really know why there is such a fascination with this particular bi-state situation. Kansas City MO/KS, of course, is an unusual situation. But there are many examples of river cities with another state on the opposite bank.

There aren't that many major ones.

Here are the US cities that anchor major 1M+ MSAs that have municipal borders literally on a state boundary line and have a substantial amount of inner ring suburbia located adjacently in a different state.


River border cities:

NYC
Philly
Cincy
Louisville
St. Louis
Portland
Memphis (sorta, it's on the state border, but there's hardly anything on the other side of the Mississippi across from it)


Land border Cities:

Chicago


Hybrid river & land border cities:

Kansas City
DC

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

There aren't that many major ones.

Here are the US cities that anchor major 1M+ MSAs that have municipal borders literally on a state boundary line and have a substantial amount of inner ring suburbia located adjacent in a different state.


River border cities:

NYC
Philly
Cincy
Louisville
St. Louis
Portland
Memphis (sorta, it's on the state border, but there's hardly anything on the other side of the Mississippi across from it)


Land border Cities:

Chicago


Hybrid river & land border cities:

Kansas City
DC

The municipal boundary of Providence is just about a mile from the MA state line.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

PA is the only state that has:

Atlantic Ocean port (Philly)
Great Lakes port (Erie)
Great Rivers port (Pittsburgh)

It's the Keystone State for a reason!

Interesting, never thought about that!


For Pennsylvania, in some ways, I think one could easily argue that Erie is the city that belongs in another state. It being the only part of the state that is Great Lakes.

This seems like a no-brainer, given that it's in the NW corner, quite far and opposite from the main population center in the SE corner. And PA (outside of western PA) just doesn't have much familiarity with the Great Lakes at all.

The Erie area is probably more closely aligned with western NY state and was long, long ago a de facto part of New York, until PA (along with MA and CT) disputed the territory boudaries and the federal govt granted/sold the Erie Triangle to PA in 1792, since the state was the only one that was landlocked.



Culturally though, it's mix of western PA/western NY and northern PA/southern tier NY. Probably more like the oddball of Pennsylvania, rather than "being in the wrong state"... but maybe that's the same thing? I can certainly see the argument that the area fits in culturally more with New York than it does Pennsylvania... but I guess that depends on what we're saying defines Pennsylvania culture. Overall in a general sense though, I think it definitely is more "Great Lakes" than it is "Pennsylvania".

Influenced by all 3 of its nearby rustbelt big brothers, Erie is probably most commercially/regionally connected to Buffalo (but without the hard A nasal accent ), considering its the closest and there's lots of shared bonds... it's casually known as the Erie & Chautauqua region. Though Pittsburgh has a strong or stronger pull on it too (but without the Midlands/Appalachian/yinzer accent ), it being Erie's in-state "big city"... while Cleveland seems to have a more general regional influence (portion of the population is Browns and Indians fans, but can't think of much else specifically).

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

There aren't that many major ones.

Here are the US cities that anchor major 1M+ MSAs that have municipal borders literally on a state boundary line and have a substantial amount of inner ring suburbia located adjacently in a different state.


River border cities:

NYC
Philly
Cincy
Louisville
St. Louis
Portland
Memphis (sorta, it's on the state border, but there's hardly anything on the other side of the Mississippi across from it)


Land border Cities:

Chicago


Hybrid river & land border cities:

Kansas City
DC

San Diego (city proper) borders Tijuana, Mexico. It's a bi-national metro, as evidenced by it having the busiest land border crossing in the Western Hemisphere. On average, it handles 70,000 northbound vehicles and 20,000 northbound pedestrians each day.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by craigs

San Diego (city proper) borders Mexico.

With a giant wall along it.

Not really the same thing.


Detroit and Buffalo city propers both directly border Canada.