How would you compare US cities' recovery from COVID vs. Great Recession?

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

o rilly? i thought you didnt even know it was there? so now you do know it well? well, so much for tradition. i’m sure those old restaurants are also on their xillionth owners.

and speaking of relevant, here is one of those sf bros who moved out

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtFj3...RlODBiNWFlZA==

It’s called Google bro.

I guess the better question is how did you know about it? Clearly no one else has. Maybe you’re their target demographic?

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Scaevola

I just learned I walk past Gumps every day on my way home from work and never noticed. They really need better signage and street presence.

It is a nice building and location. Hopefully something more interesting comes along to replace it.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by homebucket

It’s called Google bro.

I guess the better question is how did you know about it? Clearly no one else has. Maybe you’re their target demographic?

like the answer is maybe it was on a news aggregator like drudge and maybe that silly insta came up on my feed today bro?

[Wigs]

Never heard of Gump's or the others but Michael C. Fina sounds like a B grade actor of 1980s era action movies

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think Michael C Fina had some big store on Fifth Avenue until maybe 10-15 years ago? I vaguely remember a store of that name, and it sounded very similar to Gump's.

I guess this is some upscale WASP old lady stuff that just didn't translate to the following generations?

I recognize the name too but I don't know anything about the store.

[mrnyc]

curtis goes hard on mayor adams —


https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuUsC...RlODBiNWFlZA==

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

curtis goes hard on mayor adams —


https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuUsC...RlODBiNWFlZA==

Is Curtis Sliwa really that out of touch? The person sleeping on the sidewalk looks like one of the migrants that couldn't find space in a shelter.

[fancy trevor]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

curtis goes hard on mayor adams —


https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuUsC...RlODBiNWFlZA==

You know who's at fault for this group of destitute people? THAT group of destitute people!

[chimpskibot]

Philly - 2008 was really rough on the region and the city, I remember how desolate Center City was on certain weekends and a lot of projects were cancelled. My brother lived in fairmount and what is now $500k-1M+ homes was completely empty and desolate lots. At least Hanneman was still around lol. During the pandemic it was completely the opposite. I like many others moved back to Philadelphia (From NYC) and the downtown is packed mainly every day of the week and the crowd is getting younger! The greater downtown area is seeing a ton of investment as is further out neighborhoods and the city is becoming wealthier. Philly definitely was a pandemic winner, but the overall picture is not so rosy. The housing crisis like everywhere is pushing a lot of lower income residents out of the city or more precarious situations (resulting in more petty crime and crime of desperation like drug dealing). Also with this new wealth new residents prefer to drive than take Septa, thus outside of business hours many people do not feel safe riding it. The city also needs to tackle the myriad of issues associated with the unhoused and addicted population. These problems only began rearing their head after 2008, but were supercharged by Covid.

NYC - The city has bounced back for the professional class, but unlike in 2008 where the LES and Williamsburg were attainable for the associate level office worker or artist/skater with multiple roommates, today they are only for high income earners or DINKS. I was shocked to see how sterile alphabet city has become. Also in 2008 NYC seemed like the center of decent job growth in the country for all level of workers. Today, many of my friends without degrees or at the associate corporate level are still unemployed from 2020-2021 layoff. The job market has had an uneven rebound. Couple this with record low vacancy and rent growth and alot of people I know are in financially precarious situations where they don't have the resources to move, but if they lose housing they may not be able to re-enter the housing market. 2008 was bad, but even outlying neighborhoods had affordable options (Queens, South and East Brooklyn, Upper Manhattan, etc) today there are none.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

NYC - The city has bounced back for the professional class, but unlike in 2008 where the LES and Williamsburg were attainable for the associate level office worker or artist/skater with multiple roommates, today they are only for high income earners or DINKS. I was shocked to see how sterile alphabet city has become.

Those areas have become very tech bro-y.

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

Also in 2008 NYC seemed like the center of decent job growth in the country for all level of workers. Today, many of my friends without degrees or at the associate corporate level are still unemployed from 2020-2021 layoff. The job market has had an uneven rebound. Couple this with record low vacancy and rent growth and alot of people I know are in financially precarious situations where they don't have the resources to move, but if they lose housing they may not be able to re-enter the housing market. 2008 was bad, but even outlying neighborhoods had affordable options (Queens, South and East Brooklyn, Upper Manhattan, etc) today there are none.

The services sector in NYC was hit very hard by COVID and has yet to recover... if it ever does recover.

[Crawford]

Alphabet City absolutely isn't "sterile". LOL. There's barely a mainstream store/resturant/anything. There are still artist squats and giant housing projects.

You still get a rent discount bc it's generally a long walk to the subway (though the 2nd Avenue station has entrances between 1st Avenue and Avenue A, and the Second Avenue Subway extension will have entrances further east).

There is a tech bro presence, but not really moreso than elsewhere south of 23rd Street or in Williamsburg/Bushwick. And obviously the influence is much less than in SF or Seattle.

I spent a lot of time around 2nd Street/Avenue C from about 2000-2010, and that area, while funky, was heavily gentrified back then.

[PhilliesPhan]

I will take the Philadelphia of 2023 over the Philadelphia of 2008 any day, even with some of our current issues. I was 12/13 and not into urban planning/development at the time, so I don't remember every little detail of the time. What I do remember, however, is how much energetic Center City looked at the time, the empty stores, and the fact that there wasn't much development going on outside of a handful of neighborhoods such as Northern Liberties. Now, as a 27/28 year old who lives and works in the city, I can say that the changes over time have been more than palpable: Center City is still very lively despite the challenges COVID has posed, entire neighborhoods have been rebuilt, commercial corridors outside of Center City host restaurants that are just as lively as anything in Center City, and the city feels more sophisticated than it did back then.

I won't deny that my city has issues, but it's in a much better place than it was around 2008. The energy Philly had going into the pandemic is exactly why I believe it will recover from the pandemic just fine, even if it takes a little while. There's simply too much going on in the city for it to completely falter anytime soon.

[Gantz]

Financial crisis hit a lot of people and was fairly uniform throughout the country.
COVID itself was not an issue for cities, it is the COVID lockdowns and other policies that were the issue, and these were not uniform, but mostly depended on state/local politicians and constituency.

[chimpskibot]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Alphabet City absolutely isn't "sterile". LOL. There's barely a mainstream store/resturant/anything. There are still artist squats and giant housing projects.

You still get a rent discount bc it's generally a long walk to the subway (though the 2nd Avenue station has entrances between 1st Avenue and Avenue A, and the Second Avenue Subway extension will have entrances further east).

There is a tech bro presence, but not really moreso than elsewhere south of 23rd Street or in Williamsburg/Bushwick. And obviously the influence is much less than in SF or Seattle.

I spent a lot of time around 2nd Street/Avenue C from about 2000-2010, and that area, while funky, was heavily gentrified back then.

I'm not the only person saying this. Just because there aren't big box stores doesnt mean the area isn't sterile. Here is an example of one of my favorite bars before covid and after. I'm also not saying it wasn't gentrified in the aughts, but today it is arguably Post-gentrification.

Before:
https://www.theinfatuation.com/new-y...ews/ichibantei
https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/ichi...edwk-GlVycNLZQ

After: https://secretnyc.co/ichibantei-nyc/

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

I'm not the only person saying this. Just because there aren't big box stores doesnt mean the area isn't sterile.

If Alphabet City, home of anarchists and artists communes, is "sterile", the term has essentially no meaning.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Alphabet City absolutely isn't "sterile". LOL. There's barely a mainstream store/resturant/anything. There are still artist squats and giant housing projects.

You still get a rent discount bc it's generally a long walk to the subway (though the 2nd Avenue station has entrances between 1st Avenue and Avenue A, and the Second Avenue Subway extension will have entrances further east).

There is a tech bro presence, but not really moreso than elsewhere south of 23rd Street or in Williamsburg/Bushwick. And obviously the influence is much less than in SF or Seattle.

I spent a lot of time around 2nd Street/Avenue C from about 2000-2010, and that area, while funky, was heavily gentrified back then.

Whatever the case, it is definitely far more gentrified than it was just a few years ago. I looked at an apartment around Avenue C and E 6th-ish about 10 years ago and Ave C still seemed mostly in the early gentrification stages. Gentrification back then didn't seem to go that far past Avenue A. The building I was looking at seemed to be one of the first renovated on Ave C.

I don't spend much time in that area anymore, but when I bike through on occasion it seems extremely gentrified from the types of bars and restaurants that dominate the landscape now.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Whatever the case, it is definitely far more gentrified than it was just a few years ago. I looked at an apartment around Avenue C and E 6th-ish about 10 years ago and Ave C still seemed mostly in the early gentrification stages. Gentrification back then didn't seem to go that far past Avenue A. The building I was looking at seemed to be one of the first renovated on Ave C.

I don't spend much time in that area anymore, but when I bike through on occasion it seems extremely gentrified from the types of bars and restaurants that dominate the landscape now.

apt prices have gone up everywhere, along with everything else. thats no measure. yet, the ev remains the land of mom and pops and small restaurants. i dk why, must be in part the history? but also the built form doesnt allow for very big retail below the apts, so not really desirable to chains. anyway, nothing sterile about it.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

apt prices have gone up everywhere, along with everything else. thats no measure. yet, the ev remains the land of mom and pops and small restaurants. i dk why, must be in part the history? but also the built form doesnt allow for very big retail below the apts, so not really desirable to chains. anyway, nothing sterile about it.

Chains don't really dominate any area of NYC, though. I don't think that's a great measure of gentrification for this city. But the "hip" bar and restaurant scene has definitely moved farther east from a few years ago. There wasn't much in the way of bars and restaurants past Avenue A in the early 2010s, but Avenue B is mostly dominated by them now.

[mrnyc]

some of you have probably never heard of this major old sf store either, but its in the news as it just closed too —



Nordstrom closes San Francisco store on grim note amid naked mannequins, empty display cases

Jessica Garrison
Sun, August 27, 2023


Nordstrom’s San Francisco flagship, which for decades occupied crucial real estate at the San Francisco Centre mall on Market Street, closed its doors Sunday.

The last days of the high-end store known for its shoes and its service were grim; ABC7 on a recent visit captured images of empty display cases and stacks of naked mannequins and interviewed an employee — whose worn black sneakers were the only part of him in the shot to protect his identity — speaking darkly about crime in the city’s once-vibrant shopping district.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/nordstrom...224242182.html


Nordstrom's flagship store at the San Francisco Centre mall has closed its doors. (Justin Sullivan / Getty Images)

[montréaliste]

https://youtu.be/5UWIyGDnHmk?si=x-aK5djzXbWTQ3s6

https://youtu.be/Hf36qNx_wm4?si=7yzq-GBcYDzsCkrn

This guy who dubs himself Metal Leo did a video of Market Street and another of Broadway in Oakland that shows emptying retail venues as inexorable, at least in the short run in these cities.


So, coupled with the fact that some Silicon Valley deciders would want to build another city out there, the freakishness abounds.