The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Cliff and Paddock (not so much Peters, yet) have seen a TON of small scale investment in the last 12 months. The problem area is Waterloo itself, which has gotten much worse since they opened the 'harm reduction' center.

The former rooming house at 24 Paddock was converted to a 9-unit market rent. Next door at 22 Paddock, a serious SFH reno just sold for like $450,000. Across the street, 17 Paddock is getting some serious facade work started, and it's the ugliest one left. 76 Coburg at the top of Paddock has been totally redone. 53-55 Coburg is under reconstruction following the fire and has had extensive landscaping. All the vacant buildings around 75 Sewell are under construction. 99 Hazen is occupied and undergoing extensive repointing and repair. I will personally have 97 Hazen done and sold this year. Take a walk around and compare to the 2021 StreetView pictures on Google Maps.

I wonder what the plan for the gym is? Demolish it, leave as-is, or interior parking?

I'd love to sink my teeth into the Medical Arts Building at 115-117 Hazen. It's kind of intimidating lol.

@Pugsley- no way is UNB locating anything medical-related away from the under-construction Health and Social Innovation Centre. I'd like to see the Arts and Business programs move uptown, but this is more likely to be condos or apartments than anything.

Exactly. Also, most of the clinical training the students do happens at the Regional. Remember St Joe's is more of a "medical facility" than an actual hospital these days.

Agree about that Harm Reduction center. I was at the drycleaners on the corner of Paddock and Waterloo around 8:45 the other morning and the scene across the street looked like a scene from Vancouver's the Downtown Eastside

[cdnguys]

Adam, is your Waterloo project still on sched for next month or delayed a bit? That along with steeple and St V will be the turning point for the area

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Adam, is your Waterloo project still on sched for next month or delayed a bit? That along with steeple and St V will be the turning point for the area

March start date. Couldn't get contractors. Going to an RFP by December. We're also going from 45 to 54 units and adding a floor.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

March start date. Couldn't get contractors. Going to an RFP by December. We're also going from 45 to 54 units and adding a floor.

Any new renderings showing additional floor ?

[RR Drummer]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

March start date. Couldn't get contractors. Going to an RFP by December. We're also going from 45 to 54 units and adding a floor.

Excellent! Nice addition to the area. Trust all goes well with your project.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Yep. No way it could be non-profit. 10' or wider hallways, cavernous classrooms, and so on. Too much wasted space for affordable. It would only work as something kind of high end. Not sure if it's still connected to the St Joe's heating system complex.

Now how about the views from St. Pat's over west... and at such a good price!

Also Cliff-related: apparently Steepleview is ready to start any time. They're just stuck in paperwork hell with the CMHC. No risk to the project, just the timelines.

CBC NB has article this morning about St Pats selling to a developer. Things must be looking good for two seemingly hopeless properties to sell suddenly to developers.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

March start date. Couldn't get contractors. Going to an RFP by December. We're also going from 45 to 54 units and adding a floor.

I'm curious about your development. I like the look of it but the location seems a little odd to a non expert. On the face of it Waterloo doesn't seem like a particularly attractive place to live. Not the uptown core and yet not out of the fog belt, Not exceptional views and a streetscape that is pretty gritty with a drug user/homeless population and the issues that come with that.

OTOH, other than university days I've lived my entire life in suburban, detached homes on relatively large lots so maybe I can't relate to your target market.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I'm curious about your development. I like the look of it but the location seems a little odd to a non expert. On the face of it Waterloo doesn't seem like a particularly attractive place to live. Not the uptown core and yet not out of the fog belt, Not exceptional views and a streetscape that is pretty gritty with a drug user/homeless population and the issues that come with that.

Somebody needs to be the first to drive change in an area and this development looks like it could be the door opener to others. As a planner by education, I actually applaud the development as a solid first step towards a revitalization of this area. It takes only one initial private developer to send the signal that this is an areas that is isn't risky. So bravo!

That said, I believe there are some side balconies facing a laneway. That would be the only thing I'd recommend be reconsidered. Montreal stopped allowing this simply due to the opportunity for crime "out of eyesight" of law enforcement in denser urban areas. Other than that, I hope this development encourages others to invest in the area!

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I'm curious about your development. I like the look of it but the location seems a little odd to a non expert. On the face of it Waterloo doesn't seem like a particularly attractive place to live. Not the uptown core and yet not out of the fog belt, Not exceptional views and a streetscape that is pretty gritty with a drug user/homeless population and the issues that come with that.

OTOH, other than university days I've lived my entire life in suburban, detached homes on relatively large lots so maybe I can't relate to your target market.

I haven't heard anyone use the term "fog belt" in ages, is anyone still really thinking about that kind of thing?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I haven't heard anyone use the term "fog belt" in ages, is anyone still really thinking about that kind of thing?

Oh, I think so. I know plenty of people from the KV who like to brag "It was fog and drizzle when I left town but sunny and 30 on my deck when I got home.

I even routinely see a change from warm and sunny to cool and foggy between Millidgeville and the top of Somerset at Fort Howe.

To me the trade off for giving that (and greenspace) up would be the kind of urban energy and activity you'd get living somewhere like Fundy Quay, 99 King or the Telegraph (Shops, restaurants, cafes, entertainment venues etc etc . I don't see the same attraction to the Haymarket Sq end of Waterloo.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Somebody needs to be the first to drive change in an area and this development looks like it could be the door opener to others. As a planner by education, I actually applaud the development as a solid first step towards a revitalization of this area. It takes only one initial private developer to send the signal that this is an areas that is isn't risky. So bravo!

That said, I believe there are some side balconies facing a laneway. That would be the only thing I'd recommend be reconsidered. Montreal stopped allowing this simply due to the opportunity for crime "out of eyesight" of law enforcement in denser urban areas. Other than that, I hope this development encourages others to invest in the area!

Oh, I certainly hope it's successful and is the start of change there too! I guess I just don't understand the reasons why someone would choose to live in that location.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Oh, I think so. I know plenty of people from the KV who like to brag "It was fog and drizzle when I left town but sunny and 30 on my deck when I got home.

I even routinely see a change from warm and sunny to cool and foggy between Millidgeville and the top of Somerset at Fort Howe.

To me the trade off for giving that (and greenspace) up would be the kind of urban energy and activity you'd get living somewhere like Fundy Quay, 99 King or the Telegraph (Shops, restaurants, cafes, entertainment venues etc etc . I don't see the same attraction to the Haymarket Sq end of Waterloo.

Maybe not right now. But the more we densify and include options for those to open restaurants, cafes, arcades, archery or whatever, then it won't be just a big concentration towards Fundy Quay / King street.

Areas are allowed to create their own urban cores nearby. Look at Halifax just because they have restaurants/bars/clubs etc near the arena doesn't mean they should not have added more along Spring Garden road.

[Sabien]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I haven't heard anyone use the term "fog belt" in ages, is anyone still really thinking about that kind of thing?

Last year I moved from French Village (aka East Saint John) to the westside of the city. After 26 years of driving to the uptown, while leaving my house without a cloud in the sky, only to arrive in a dimly lit, dense cloud of fog, I am now one of the people I used to feel bad for - missing out on so many beautiful days that are only a 12 minute drive away.

I might be exaggerating to make a point, but from my point of view, yes the fog belt is still something people think about. We thought about it when it came time to pick a new place to live and now we really enjoy our new surroundings.

However, we're staying in Thailand for the next several months and a cool day here is when it gets down to 30c. So, ironically, now I reeeaaally miss those foggy west Saint John days.

[adamuptownsj]

All the market-rate units are on the second floor or higher, and 25 of the 31 will have actual, not realtor-speak, full-window ocean views. The affordable units mostly face the courtyard or are on the main floor. So yeah, from ground level the view is of the Brunswick St subsidized housing tower, but from the 2nd floor on up, you can see right out to Red Head over the breakwater. See this Google Globe View which approximates it. https://imgur.com/a/o6px3I7

From a location perspective... it's a little concerning lol. But with Steepleview starting at the same time, we're confident there will be improvements to the area more generally. The diocesan office is being converted to senior's housing, there's a plan for an apartment building on the General Hospital site, and there's some intriguing land for open for development on both Exmouth and Waterloo/Brinley.

It's much closer to 'uptown' than the far side of the south end is. 700m to the City Market vs ~1100 or so. And we're not charging crazy rents. We'd rather be first to the area than last, and we got the land for a very fair price. Our project passed every CMHC 'proximity to services' metric with top marks.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Oh, I certainly hope it's successful and is the start of change there too! I guess I just don't understand the reasons why someone would choose to live in that location.

Waterloo St was once one of the nicer and desirable place to live in Saint John. If you walk it there are a lot of diamonds in the rough. Problem is City, charities and Province located too many services there for vulnerable communities - like methadone clinics, shelters, etc. nothing wrong with those, but why concentrate in that one area? Spread it out. I think Adam is smart to invest there because he’s getting in before it’s fully gentrified which will happen. You see gentrification spreading already from uptown to Peters and Paddock. There will be a development up on Agar Place eventually

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

All the market-rate units are on the second floor or higher, and 25 of the 31 will have actual, not realtor-speak, full-window ocean views. The affordable units mostly face the courtyard or are on the main floor. So yeah, from ground level the view is of the Brunswick St subsidized housing tower, but from the 2nd floor on up, you can see right out to Red Head over the breakwater. See this Google Globe View which approximates it. https://imgur.com/a/o6px3I7

From a location perspective... it's a little concerning lol. But with Steepleview starting at the same time, we're confident there will be improvements to the area more generally. The diocesan office is being converted to senior's housing, there's a plan for an apartment building on the General Hospital site, and there's some intriguing land for open for development on both Exmouth and Waterloo/Brinley.

It's much closer to 'uptown' than the far side of the south end is. 700m to the City Market vs ~1100 or so. And we're not charging crazy rents. We'd rather be first to the area than last, and we got the land for a very fair price. Our project passed every CMHC 'proximity to services' metric with top marks.

Interesting.....thanks for the explanation. I will look forward to seeing the finished project.

[cdnguys]

[cdnguys]

[IMG]
Sorry, pics not posting !

[adamuptownsj]

In this week's finance packet, a new item: https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeeting...cumentId=15844

Harbour Passage Extension
Broad Street, Crown Street and Mount Pleasant Avenue
Complete investigations and conceptual designs to extend Harbour Passage from the intersection of Broad Street and Carmarthen Street to Rockwood Park. Conceptual designs to include new roadway cross-sections of Broad Street, Crown Street and Mount Pleasant Avenue.

The Mount Pleasant part must be the bit between Seely and the park entrance. 3km in total or so...

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

In this week's finance packet, a new item: https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeeting...cumentId=15844

Harbour Passage Extension
Broad Street, Crown Street and Mount Pleasant Avenue
Complete investigations and conceptual designs to extend Harbour Passage from the intersection of Broad Street and Carmarthen Street to Rockwood Park. Conceptual designs to include new roadway cross-sections of Broad Street, Crown Street and Mount Pleasant Avenue.

The Mount Pleasant part must be the bit between Seely and the park entrance. 3km in total or so...

Very exciting to see that on the table, I had been working to try and get designs for that years ago but the viaduct at Haymarket was always the stumbling block. As a resident of Mount Pleasant who goes to Lily Lake with my dog every day and also walks Uptown to work, this is a dream for the future of my neighbourhood.