Guelph Civic League talk

[hmagazine]

Hey all - thanks for coming last night. We did video tape it and it will be available digitally online very soon.

One of the biggest questions asked last night afterwards what was the point of the evening if a Hamilton Civic League wasn't started? Hopefully there will be 3 or 4 driven individuals who will take this on and start gathering a group.

There seemed to be lots of questions last night which was great. The overall prospect of a Hamilton Civic League seemed to be exciting but very daunting as well.

As one person mentioned last night - we need a "Made in Hamilton" solution.

[thistleclub]

A postscript on political consensus-building.

It's possibly worth noting that Guelph's political fabric is remarkably stable: one MP, one MPP, both Liberal, both multi-term: MP Brenda Chamberlain (1993-2008), MPP Liz Sandals (2003-present). Bridge-building will be critical here.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by astroblaster

I don't think you can really answer this question. Of course supporters of Aerotropolis will say its against...

Is anyone really against business?

So yes.. fault line. Maybe we can use constructive dialogue to cross that rift.

Question was posed in haste. Glad you caught my drift. I was just thinking of the familiar "evils of suburbia" talking points and how they would have to be negotiated/negated. As you say, constructive dialogue. Having equal representation in the group from upper and lower city might also be useful.

[astroblaster]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Having equal representation in the group from upper and lower city might also be useful.

This will be one of the first major hurdles. Many areas don't have any organization. (specifically thinking of the mountain)

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by astroblaster

This will be one of the first major hurdles. Many areas don't have any organization. (specifically thinking of the mountain)

Indeed. But it's an opportunity to energize people who have been outside of the system.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

Guelph has sprawl issues as well.

I know some people who live in old Guelph (downtown and near the university), and there is some legitimate issue with the new development closer to the 401.

That's true, but I guess where I was going with my "compact footprint" comment was that most of Guelph's population is geographically tight-knit. Would hazard to guess that 90-95% of its residents live within a 10 minute drive of downtown.

[astroblaster]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Indeed. But it's an opportunity to energize people who have been outside of the system.

Yes, this is also what I'm most excited about. Also, I would like to try to get in touch with other cultural organizations and churches.

Any other Skyscrapers from Ward 8 ?

[highwater]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

And there's a lot to be angry about. But an alarmist tone to the conversation might only encourage suburbanites to raise the drawbridge.

Also curious about the difference between values and issues, which seems like a semantic fault line. For example: Is a vote for Aerotropolis a vote for or against business? It seems like you stand a better chance of building unanimity and a civic coalition if you're able to remove value loading from the polling and evaluation process.

Hi Thistleclub. I hope you have a chance to watch the video of the meeting when it's posted. I think Annie O'Donaghue of the GCL did a good job of elucidating the difference between values and issues. As other posters mentioned, GCL moved from being a 'chicken little' organization focused on negatives such as stopping Walmart, to being focused positively around core values that they developed through surveys and dialogue with citizens in all parts of the city.

Like Hamilton, it was assumed that people living in Guelph's older, urban neighbourhoods had little in common with suburbanites, but when the discussion focused around values, such as citizen engagement, as opposed to specific issues like Walmart, they found that there were far more similarities than differences. I wouldn't be surprised if we find the same thing here. I think our challenges will be our much greater size, complicated by the fact that some of our suburbs (cough, Flamborough, cough cough) actively despise Hamilton, and are willing to work against the best interest of the city as a whole. However, I still think there is the potential for lots of common ground with other areas.

I couldn't find the list of core values that the GCL focused their evaluation of councillors around, but they were similar to their current stated objectives:


We are working for:

* Urban literacy and engagement for all citizens
* Participatory democracy
* City planning and design to manage growth
* Economic development to offset residential taxes and provide jobs
* Complete cost/benefit analysis of major decisions and investments
* Support for local businesses
* Ecological awareness and protection of the highest standard
* Increased focus on the development of culture and the arts
* Heritage identification and preservation
* Quality and beauty as civic priorities


I think those are the types of 'values' that most citizens could get behind, regardless of the type of neighbourhood they live in. Take the Aerotropolis for example. We could say "the sky is falling!" and risk being portrayed as anti-business, or we could demand true participatory democracy (as opposed to the current sham), and a complete cost-benefit analysis (as opposed to the current sham). I realize the anti-aerotroplis forces are already taking this tack, I'm just using this as an example. An organization like the GCL would bring increased legitimacy to these efforts by virtue of it's size and the broad base of its consensus. Much harder for the DiIannis of this world to demonize a city-wide coalition of citizens from all walks of life. The GCL has managed to stave off charges of partisanship by developing their core values through broad-based consultation, and staying true to them. This is the lesson I took away from last night. I think it's worthwhile emulating, and a good framework for finding our own 'made in Hamilton' solution.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by highwater

Hi Thistleclub. I hope you have a chance to watch the video of the meeting when it's posted. I think Annie O'Donaghue of the GCL did a good job of elucidating the difference between values and issues. As other posters mentioned, GCL moved from being a 'chicken little' organization focused on negatives such as stopping Walmart, to being focused positively around core values that they developed through surveys and dialogue with citizens in all parts of the city.

Like Hamilton, it was assumed that people living in Guelph's older, urban neighbourhoods had little in common with suburbanites, but when the discussion focused around values, such as citizen engagement, as opposed to specific issues like Walmart, they found that there were far more similarities than differences. I wouldn't be surprised if we find the same thing here. I think our challenges will be our much greater size, complicated by the fact that some of our suburbs (cough, Flamborough, cough cough) actively despise Hamilton, and are willing to work against the best interest of the city as a whole. However, I still think there is the potential for lots of common ground with other areas.... An organization like the GCL would bring increased legitimacy to these efforts by virtue of it's size and the broad base of its consensus. Much harder for the DiIannis of this world to demonize a city-wide coalition of citizens from all walks of life. The GCL has managed to stave off charges of partisanship by developing their core values through broad-based consultation, and staying true to them. This is the lesson I took away from last night. I think it's worthwhile emulating, and a good framework for finding our own 'made in Hamilton' solution.

Looking fwd to video. And I agree with your points. As I've said, I think that even if a Civic League didn't change anything in the makeup of council in 2010, the community conversation could transform the political culture of the city.

Geography will naturally be a challenge. Guelph is lucky in that four of its six wards converge on downtown: City Hall's in Ward 1, but walk six blocks north, west or south and you're in another ward. That civic intimacy in itself fosters community. They have to cross the Speed. We have to erase the escarpment, and that's just for starters: Wards 1-4 & 6-8 (everything from Dundas to the Red Hill Valley, the Harbour to Rymal) represents 60% of the city's electors, but only seven of 15 council votes. Sea change will require support from the deep suburbs.

I do not think that this is impossible, incidentally. It will require hard work, patience and dedication, but I think that it is completely doable.