Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[exit2lef]

^Most city council members hire staff who work quietly behind the scenes. Sal seems to hire people who compete to outdo him. Stone and Hamilton are both as obnoxious on social media as their boss, sometimes even more so.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Just noticed today that a HAWK has been installed just East of Central on Thomas in front of the Embassy Suites. Glad to see this going there. I have seen lots of jaywalkers crossing mid-block to get to the bus stop. Also, this will be a significantly busy crossing if Toll Brothers gets the apartment complex going.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Just noticed today that a HAWK has been installed just East of Central on Thomas in front of the Embassy Suites. Glad to see this going there. I have seen lots of jaywalkers crossing mid-block to get to the bus stop. Also, this will be a significantly busy crossing if Toll Brothers gets the apartment complex going.

Yeah, that's the problem. They were not listening. They breaking the laws. They supposed to be on crosswalk. They cannot go on the streets. It could be very dangerous.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Just noticed today that a HAWK has been installed just East of Central on Thomas in front of the Embassy Suites. Glad to see this going there. I have seen lots of jaywalkers crossing mid-block to get to the bus stop. Also, this will be a significantly busy crossing if Toll Brothers gets the apartment complex going.

That has been in the plan for a while. Ironically the majority of the jaywalkers in the past have been people crossing between the offices on the NEC and the parking lot on the south side. That lot no longer exists due to the Toll Bros. project.

[TakeFive]

US construction costs rose 5.7% in 2018
May 7, 2019 by Kim Slowey - Construction Dive

Construction costs in the U.S. rose 5.7% in 2018, according to Rider Levett Bucknall...

Of the 12 U.S. metros in RLB’s report, those experiencing the biggest cost increases were Chicago (7.6%); Portland, Oregon (7.1%); San Francisco (6.7%); Phoenix (6.7%); Washington, D.C. (6.5%); and Seattle (6.4%).

What about infrastructure?

For infrastructure projects, which typically take longer to plan and budget ... the larger price tags sometime translate to delays or even cancellations.

The Maine DOT has slashed tens of millions of dollars' worth of projects from its 2019 infrastructure plan ... because contractors have been submitting bids much higher than the DOT estimated. The agency even added 10% to its own projections to make up for cost increases, but that add-on turned out to be too low.

Maine by itself is a small sample size but it's never-the-less indicative of national infrastructure cost trends.

Hardly a surprise that metro Phoenix is now playing ketchup to other metro markets.

IMO
It was a smart decision for Phoenix City Council to reallocate funds to bringing streets up to drivable conditions. It's not about roads versus light rail; it's about the fact that the road maintenance budget was woefully underfunded. It's making a Big difference. I also see where ADOT is finally resurfacing significant segments of the 202; so many miles on that animal though.

Phoenix may still be relatively low-cost compared to many places but the cost of industrial metals, cement and crude oil based derivatives like asphalt etc or the cost of machinery don't discriminate.

What does impress me is today's process of repaving is soooo much more efficient than yesterday's slow process. From prep to new surface now takes days as opposed to weeks.

[biggus diggus]

I have finally started to notice the rapid deterioration of the roads that people are talking about. It's funny how things like that can go unnoticed until someone raises a fuss.

[cygnusloop99]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I have finally started to notice the rapid deterioration of the roads that people are talking about. It's funny how things like that can go unnoticed until someone raises a fuss.

For some reason the cold weather storms from last February/March really took a toll on the freeways.

[combusean]

I wouldn't seriously bother with repaving until I upzoned every last bit of the city to R5 or C3. The idea that we can somehow hold ourselves accountable to a traffic engineer's fantasy standard and not be buried in the taxes to pay for it departs from reality.

Strong Towns extensively covers this and is most of the reason that organization exists--sprawl is unsustainable and the bills for it here are finally coming due. There's 15 feet of roadway for every person in Phoenix or an absolute minimum $2,900 per person according to Phoenix's lowballed figures to bring roads up to that par. Who can afford that?

[exit2lef]

^During his recent pontificating about the supposed evils of Vision Zero, DiCiccio said he wanted every street in his district repaired just as it is today, but unaltered in terms of speed limits, lane widths, and other design features. Despite all his carping about public spending and pension debt, Sal seems unwilling or unable to understand that six-lane arterials through low density areas eventually become unaffordable. Sal generally gives developers what they want, so I don't necessarily see him as an opponent of density. On the other hand, his opposition to anything resembling a road diet keeps maintenance costs high. If he were really devoted to fiscal responsibility, he would be insisting on narrower lanes, lower speed limits, and road diets in locations where appropriate -- not just because these features make roads safer, but also because they lower the wear-and-tear and road surface area that must be addressed by the maintenance budget.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by combusean

I wouldn't seriously bother with repaving until I upzoned every last bit of the city to R5 or C3. The idea that we can somehow hold ourselves accountable to a traffic engineer's fantasy standard and not be buried in the taxes to pay for it departs from reality.

Strong Towns extensively covers this and is most of the reason that organization exists--sprawl is unsustainable and the bills for it here are finally coming due. There's 15 feet of roadway for every person in Phoenix or an absolute minimum $2,900 per person according to Phoenix's lowballed figures to bring roads up to that par. Who can afford that?

I keep intending to spend time on Strong Towns, known as a good urban site but never do.

Here's a parallel quote of road infrastructure extracted from a different post that shows the yin and yang or crux of the problem:

Originally Posted by TakeFive

The Republican anti-tax crowd including AFP (Americans for Prosperity) have cost themselves a boatload of money. If CDOT had been more timely funded current projects (like Central 70) could have been done for much less. My guess is the I-25/I-70 projects will cost a minimum 35% more than if not for all the delay.

As for the Streetsblog crowd which obsesses over ideology and never mind what the costs might be, they could be the biggest losers.

Point being neither the (far) right or left knows how to get anything done. Meanwhile costs have been increasing at an accelerating pace and for now Phoenix is left to repair existing streets in a city/metro that sprawls. Phoenix is by far the city with the most deferred maintenance. First rule of appealing to voter/taxpayers is to fix the damn potholes/roads.

In Phoenix sadly urbanism barely has a toehold and I've argued repeatedly for 'Green' and 'Complete' streets which is consistent with (needed) up-zoning. Perhaps by the next time the roads need repaving better sense will be in place.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I keep intending to spend time on Strong Towns, known as a good urban site but never do.

Here's a parallel quote of road infrastructure extracted from a different post that shows the yin and yang or crux of the problem:

Point being neither the (far) right or left knows how to get anything done. Meanwhile costs have been increasing at an accelerating pace and for now Phoenix is left to repair existing streets in a city/metro that sprawls. Phoenix is by far the city with the most deferred maintenance. First rule of appealing to voter/taxpayers is to fix the damn potholes/roads.

In Phoenix sadly urbanism barely has a toehold and I've argued repeatedly for 'Green' and 'Complete' streets which is consistent with (needed) up-zoning. Perhaps by the next time the roads need repaving better sense will be in place.

Strong Towns makes some good points. I saw its founder Chuck Marohn when he spoke in Phoenix last year and enjoyed his talk for the most part. Nevertheless, both Marohn and his staff get some things wrong and sometimes stubbornly repeat the same old arguments without understanding the nuances of different situations. Strong Towns has described Phoenix's light rail as a "shiny object. " That's a tired, silly, and thoroughly debunked argument usually associated with anti-urbanists. Sometimes, cities need to think big and invest in infrastructure. Not everything can be accomplished through the incremental approach Marohn advocates.

Can you please explain your comment "Phoenix is by far the city with the most deferred maintenance."? Perhaps that's true relative to some of its suburbs, but certainly not in comparison to the rest of the nation.

Also, in your both-sides-ism I see an unfortunate theme of the ends justifying the means. Even if city staff and the Stanton administration should have made street maintenance a higher priority, I don't see how that can be used to justify raiding funds intended for high-capacity transit.

It seems that during the leadership vacuum of the past year, some of the moderates on the council have tried to strike a bargain in which they raid funds intended for rail with the intent of creating a highly visible surge of street repairs. That surge would then mollify voters and convince them enough repairs are occurring and that no further defunding of rail is necessary. I hope they're right, but I'm skeptical. With DiCiccio, if you give an inch, he takes a mile (literally -- since we're talking about miles of streets here). The anti-rail forces have not been motivated to give up the fight by prior reallocations of funds. Instead, they've been emboldened. I can only hope the voters feel differently.

[biggus diggus]

The funny thing about exit to left is that his posts are so well thought out, clearly communicated, and clearly written by someone intelligent that I just assume any point he's making must be correct.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Strong Towns makes some good points. I saw its founder Chuck Marohn when he spoke in Phoenix last year and enjoyed his talk for the most part. Nevertheless, both Marohn and his staff get some things wrong and sometimes stubbornly repeat the same old arguments without understanding the nuances of different situations. Strong Towns has described Phoenix's light rail as a "shiny object. " That's a tired, silly, and thoroughly debunked argument usually associated with anti-urbanists. Sometimes, cities need to think big and invest in infrastructure. Not everything can be accomplished through the incremental approach Marohn advocates.

Interesting... I've acknowledged that Denver's is NOT a 'text book' system but also pointed out it wasn't designed or intended to be a 'text book' system which goes partly to your visionary point.

But Phoenix light rail (as it exists) easily falls within being textbook and the numbers prove the point unless.... you're among the elitists who only believe that the original six (plus Seattle) deserve to have rail transit - at least funded at the Federal level.

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Can you please explain your comment "Phoenix is by far the city with the most deferred maintenance."? Perhaps that's true relative to some of its suburbs, but certainly not in comparison to the rest of the nation.

Nobody living or driving in metro Phoenix give two chits about the rest of the nation.

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Also, in your both-sides-ism I see an unfortunate theme of the ends justifying the means. Even if city staff and the Stanton administration should have made street maintenance a higher priority, I don't see how that can be used to justify raiding funds intended for high-capacity transit.

Certainly 'ends justifying the means' is characteristic of idealism which gets you into wonderful conversations or nasty politics is all.

If we were debating new roads versus new transit I'd favor new transit in a heartbeat. But fire, police and (good) roads are like the ABC's of government. Admittedly road maintenance can easily be deferred and Phoenix isn't the only guilty city but it's like sitting on time bomb that at some point will go off.

But it's not necessarily all that bad it just feels offensive - I get that. Assuming a positive vote which I do then the South Central extension will break ground pending confirmation of FTA funding. The Metro Center extension should be easy peasy while the Capital I-10 may be up in the air. Honestly, if they settled for BRT on that, it wouldn't the worst thing.

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

The funny thing about exit to left is that his posts are so well thought out, clearly communicated, and clearly written by someone intelligent that I just assume any point he's making must be correct.

There's no debating their wisdom.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

The funny thing about exit to left is that his posts are so well thought out, clearly communicated, and clearly written by someone intelligent that I just assume any point he's making must be correct.

Ha. I am often uncertain and sometimes wrong, but I appreciate the kind words.

[azsunsurfer]

Oh brother.....someone must need reading glasses.

[soled]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

Oh brother.....someone must need reading glasses.

Someone in particular on this board, or just some random person on planet Earth?

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by soled

Someone in particular on this board, or just some random person on planet Earth?

It's fun to guess what these cryptic messages mean.

[combusean]

^ Yeah and I already don't like where this is going.

[muertecaza]

Stopped by the opening of the Gilbert Rd. light rail extension and snapped a few pictures.

The art at the end-of-the-line station is weird but I like it.



Big crowd to hear Kate Gallego speak:



Decent turnout:



Right and Rong in the house:



Just rode one mile from Gilbert Rd. to Stapley and got off:



Didn't get my phone out in time to catch the train pulling through the roundabout at Horne, but here it is with the arms on their way back up:

[muertecaza]

Consultants will update Tempe City Council this week on the study of street car extensions into/involving Mesa. These are the corridors they've identified as being worth additional study:



Studying anything other than an extension along Rio Salado to Sloan Park seems like a waste of money to me, but Tempe/Mesa budgeted $600k for the study, and I bet those consultants will use every penny.