Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[CrestedSaguaro]

A good read on I-11 and why it shouldn't be built.

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...t-watch-vol-5/

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

A good read on I-11 and why it shouldn't be built.

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...t-watch-vol-5/

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the i-11 is for, its to connect the border, Phoenix and Tucson directly to Las Vegas and via Vegas up to salt lake

At its ultimate conceived build out it would connect the inter mountain west from Mexico to Canada, giving direct interstate transportation corridors through the rapidly growing Intermountain region. It could connect to Reno, or house or Spokane or bend or inner Washington right up into central BC

[Mr.RE]

I've seen a 10:1 ratio of signs saying vote Yes on Prop 105 verses No on Prop 105 up and down both Indian School and camelback in the Arcadia area. I worry that uninformed voters will select yes on the ballots simply because its the most visible signs they see everyday. Fingers cross for a "No" outcome!

[CrestedSaguaro]

That's my only fear is confusing yes and no. But the media has been trying to clarify this in a few articles over the weeks. I guess it all boils down to who reads the news or not.

[PHX31]

If it's possible to basically just overturn past propositions that have passed, even if "Yes" wins, can't we just get another proposition and bring light rail back? I admittedly don't follow things very closely, but this seems fairly ludicrous that this may actually happen after several votes where light rail was supported through the years.

[combusean]

The default behavior for people who don't understand a proposition is to vote no.

It's still an off-year election where city employees vote in droves to support the liberal side of things--their jobs are all at stake if 106 passes. The no on 106 crowd will have an outsized impact on 105, and the higher-information voters should be a lot more motivated to vote no as well.

Greg Stanton was not in a close race with Wes Gullett many years ago, and Wes was not nearly as extreme as the no on 105/106 crowd.

I would be surprised if either proposition passed.

[biggus diggus]

I would not be surprised if one of them wins and then is challenged in court on the basis that "voters didn't understand the purposefully misleading wording of the proposition".

Just my "outlandish" opinion.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by PHX31

If it's possible to basically just overturn past propositions that have passed, even if "Yes" wins, can't we just get another proposition and bring light rail back? I admittedly don't follow things very closely, but this seems fairly ludicrous that this may actually happen after several votes where light rail was supported through the years.

I suspect that's exactly what would happen. In fact, one of the chief spokespeople for the Yes on 105 campaign has suggested that in several media interviews, most likely in an attempt to make 105 appear less severe than it really is. If that scenario occurs, I suspect it would be a proposal for a more limited plan involving only two facets: 1) completing the existing line by extending it to MetroCenter 2) Building the Capitol / 1-10 West line. South Central, which was the spark that caused this dumpster fire, would probably be off the table for good or delayed many years while a new plan with four lanes is designed and approved by the Feds. Of course, the MetroCenter and Capitol tracks would probably also be delayed due to getting out of line for federal funding during the time between referenda, so there would be damage to the entire region, even if some outspoken voices in South Phoenix got what they wanted.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I suspect that's exactly what would happen. In fact, one of the chief spokespeople for the Yes on 105 campaign has suggested that in several media interviews, most likely in an attempt to make 105 appear less severe than it really is. If that scenario occurs, I suspect it would be a proposal for a more limited plan involving only two facets: 1) completing the existing line by extending it to MetroCenter 2) Building the Capitol / 1-10 West line. South Central, which was the spark that caused this dumpster fire, would probably be off the table for good or delayed many years while a new plan with four lanes is designed and approved by the Feds. Of course, the MetroCenter and Capitol tracks would probably also be delayed due to getting out of line for federal funding during the time between referenda, so there would be damage to the entire region, even if some outspoken voices in South Phoenix got what they wanted.

Screw those business owners - it's too bad the entire community will suffer though!

Go ahead and keep Central the way it is south of the I-10 and it will NEVER improve - it'll just be panederias and tire shops and taco trucks lol what a joke

[exit2lef]

This latest image from Building a Better Phoenix's Facebook page is a head-scratcher:



I had to look up Wayne Howard. Apparently, he's a local developer who donated some money to help pay new city council member Carlos Garcia's campaign debt. Garcia was one of the original members of the Four-Lane-or-No-Train movement but has since disavowed Building a Better Phoenix, so I can sort of understand the bitterness directed towards one of his backers.

It's the Koch part that is strange. As the New Times revealed earlier this week, funds from organizations sponsored by the Koch Brothers have flowed to Building a Better Phoenix. Maybe they're trying to turn attention away from that discovery by suggesting the Kochs are actually on the pro-rail side and want to gentrify South Phoenix? Either someone is really confused, or this is intentional deflection and deception.

I'm also wondering why "Better Neighborhoods but with the Same Neighbors" would be a bad outcome for South Phoenix. Maybe I'm missing some sarcasm here.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

This latest image from Building a Better Phoenix's Facebook page is a head-scratcher:



I had to look up Wayne Howard. Apparently, he's a local developer who donated some money to help pay new city council member Carlos Garcia's campaign debt. Garcia was one of the original members of the Four-Lane-or-No-Train movement but has since disavowed Building a Better Phoenix, so I can sort of understand the bitterness directed towards one of his backers.

It's the Koch part that is strange. As the New Times revealed earlier this week, funds from organizations sponsored by the Koch Brothers have flowed to Building a Better Phoenix. Maybe they're trying to turn attention away from that discovery by suggesting the Kochs are actually on the pro-rail side and want to gentrify South Phoenix? Either someone is really confused, or this is intentional deflection and deception.

I'm also wondering why "Better Neighborhoods but with the Same Neighbors" would be a bad outcome for South Phoenix. Maybe I'm missing some sarcasm here.

Head scratcher indeed. I hope the public can recognize the mess and debacle this whole ordeal has been and can sell the BS. I agree, it looks like Building a Better Phoenix group is turning on its own. First, the Celia Contreras blow-up, confirmation of dark money from Koch Brothers, and now this.

Seems like a desperate move...

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Head scratcher indeed. I hope the public can recognize the mess and debacle this whole ordeal has been and can sell the BS. I agree, it looks like Building a Better Phoenix group is turning on its own. First, the Celia Contreras blow-up, confirmation of dark money from Koch Brothers, and now this.

Seems like a desperate move...

It's desperate, but they know that the outsiders trying to get them to vote yes are a losing argument, so they are just lying. Of course.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

A good read on I-11 and why it shouldn't be built.

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...t-watch-vol-5/

Counter argument to why I-11 shouldn't be built:

Try driving from Phoenix -> Vegas along US-93.

You'll be a believer soon after...

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by xymox

Counter argument to why I-11 shouldn't be built:

Try driving from Phoenix -> Vegas along US-93.

You'll be a believer soon after...

I drive it several several times per year. Why would you assume I've never driven to Vegas?

[biggus diggus]

Why would he assume you have?

[CrestedSaguaro]

Honestly...how many residents do you think there are in Phoenix that have not made the trip at least once? I would say a very, very small percentage have not traveled to Vegas from Phoenix.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Now that 11's been mostly built on the Nevada side, there's a noticeable difference (obviously, duh) in driving conditions when crossing over the Colorado River.

93 sucks, but then I don't have to drive it all the way to Phoenix. I take 40 back to Flagstaff via Kingman.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Now that 11's been mostly built on the Nevada side, there's a noticeable difference (obviously, duh) in driving conditions when crossing over the Colorado River.

93 sucks, but then I don't have to drive it all the way to Phoenix. I take 40 back to Flagstaff via Kingman.

Believe me, I agree that 93 sucks. But that's mostly due to that nearly half of it is still 1 lane in each direction and doesn't bypass Wickenburg. I-11 is really not going to take that much drive time off the trip (maybe 45 minutes at best) and will generate more sprawl out West of Phoenix.

Just convert 93 to 2 lanes the entire length with 3 lanes for uphill segments, bypass Wickenburg and Wikiup, and the drive time would be cut significantly. Why spend billions on a flawed path for I-11 that won't even come within 40 miles of Downtown Phoenix?

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I drive it several several times per year. Why would you assume I've never driven to Vegas?

We do. We drove from PHX-LAS on the roads trip over 5 years ago. Also, I rode on FlixBus from Phoenix to Las Vegas by last year. We know how to get there. It's very easy drive.

This time, I am going to Vegas to see my sister on FlixBus. Flying is very extremely expensive. We can see Hoover Dam and we can see a beautiful mountains, as well.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Believe me, I agree that 93 sucks. But that's mostly due to that nearly half of it is still 1 lane in each direction and doesn't bypass Wickenburg. I-11 is really not going to take that much drive time off the trip (maybe 45 minutes at best) and will generate more sprawl out West of Phoenix.

Just convert 93 to 2 lanes the entire length with 3 lanes for uphill segments, bypass Wickenburg and Wikiup, and the drive time would be cut significantly. Why spend billions on a flawed path for I-11 that won't even come within 40 miles of Downtown Phoenix?

Here's how much of an idiot I am: I don't follow this close enough and thought they were doing with 93 what you proposed to make it I-11.