Differences between SW Ontario vs Eastern Ontario

[Docere]

Just to clarify I used the following CDs for Eastern Ontario: Frontenac, Hastings, Lanark, Leeds and Grenville, Lennox and Addington, Ottawa, Prescott and Russell, Prince Edward, Renfrew, Stormont Dundas and Glengarry.

What about Haliburton, Kawartha Lakes, Northumberland and Peterborough? Should they be included? Sometimes they're placed in Central Ontario along with Simcoe, Muskoka and Parry Sound.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Docere

Note the difference in the Catholic share (37% in Eastern Ontario, 28% in SW Ontario).

That's also a "French-influenced" variable.

[Acajack]

I think Peterborough's inclusion in Eastern Ontario is highly debatable.

In terms of the 401 corridor at least, in my mind Eastern Ontario begins/ends at Kingston.

[Docere]

Here's how Wikivoyage defines Eastern and Central Ontario:

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Eastern_Ontario

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Central_Ontario

[Docere]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I don't have time to do the data now, but I bet some of the relatively low distinctiveness in that comparison stems from the dividing line used. I'd guess most of the southern and western parts of Eastern Ontario around Kingston, Belleville, and Peterborough are pretty similar to Southwestern Ontario in ethnic composition.

I'm pretty sure it's in the northern and eastern parts of Eastern Ontario closer to Ottawa and the QC border where it gets distinct.

If that comparison was redone, but instead separated out Ottawa, Renfrew, Lanark, Prescott-Russell, and Stormont-Dundas-Glengarry from the rest of Eastern Ontario, I'd bet that the former would look a lot more distinctive. Probably with much higher Irish, French, and "Canadian" population and a lot less English and German.

A quick summation: Yes, the distinctiveness is more pronounced in "deeper" Eastern Ontario.

Excluding multiple-origin Canadians, Irish are a plurality in Ottawa, Renfrew and Lanark, single origin Canadian is a plurality in Prescott and Russell, French in SDG, and English in the rest.

Obviously there's a very strong overlap between "French" and "Canadian/Canadien" responses.

[Docere]

Canadian origin ONLY

Eastern Ontario:

Frontenac 23,915 16.3%
Hastings 29,260 21.9%
Lanark 11,550 17.2%
Leeds and Grenville 20,150 20.4%
Lennox and Addington 9,995 24.3%
Ottawa 96,125 10.5%
Prescott and Russell 33,880 38.8%
Prince Edward 4,800 19.9%
Renfrew 16,460 16.6%
Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry 29,745 26.8%

SW Ontario:

Brant 20,070 15.2%
Bruce 10,805 16.2%
Chatham-Kent 18,905 18.9%
Dufferin 9,515 15.6%
Elgin 13,940 15.9%
Essex 47,645 12.2%
Grey 16,230 17.7%
Haldimand-Norfolk 17,435 16.2%
Huron 9,905 17.1%
Lambton 20,800 16.7%
Middlesex 50,910 11.4%
Oxford 17,355 15.9%
Perth 12,525 16.7%
Waterloo 59,300 11.2%
Wellington 27,225 12.4%

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

How about the southwestern Ontario transition to south-central Ontario transition -- is it basically just split between Hamilton's and Toronto's suburban influence, with Hamilton being where the transition to SW starts?

It could include Hamilton and the Niagara peninsula, Halton Hills, Dufferin County etc.

[Capsicum]

On the lakeshore, does it end at Hamilton, Burlington or Oakville?

[Capsicum]

If Peel and Halton regions' demographics and connectivity are blurring together as Toronto's influence starts to grow and spill over to Hamilton's, does the "SW Ontario" influence diminish and retreat southward and/or westward in the wake of GTA suburbanization?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Docere

Here's how Wikivoyage defines Eastern and Central Ontario:

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Eastern_Ontario

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Central_Ontario

IMO Port Hope and Cobourg are definitely not in Eastern Ontario.

I don't really think Belleville and Trenton really are either.

Eastern Ontario is the area where Ottawa is either the unrivalled go-to big city or at the very least (as in Kingston) it is equal to Toronto in that function.

I don't think that's the case in the Belleville-Trenton area.

[Docere]

^ If the Quinte region isn't Eastern Ontario, I don't see how the K-W area is Southwestern Ontario.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

On the lakeshore, does it end at Hamilton, Burlington or Oakville?

None of those places are SW Ontario.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Docere

None of those places are SW Ontario.

Hamilton is definitely Southwestern Ontario.

[megadude]

If you polled people who live in Hamilton, particularly the city proper and not amalgamated Hamilton, I would say the vast majority wouldn't say they're in the SWO. They are part of the Golden Horseshoe or GTHA.

SWO is pretty flat notwithstanding the part of the Escarpment that goes through to Tobermory, which would include the Grey Highlands. And SWO is the bread basket of Ontario. Lots and lots of farms. Hamilton is the opposite of flat. After all, it's the "Waterfall Capital of the World".

Perhaps when you go beyond the Escarpment a case can be made for that being the beginning of SWO. Places like Brantford and Caledonia just outside amalgamated Hamilton. Or another way to look at it, on the other side of the Grand River.

Within amalgamated Hamilton, maybe just past Mt. Hope, where YHM is, you might start to get a SWO vibe. Or in Flamborough, just past Christie Lake where I fish all the time, or Flamboro Downs, at Hwys. 5 & 8. Beyond there the terrain seems flatter to me and the landscape less forrested. And at that lake and at that track, you will meet tonnes of Mississauga, Oakville and Burlington people in addition to Hamilton people giving you a GTHA vibe.

If you're driving west on Hwy. 5, once you pass Hwy. 6 in Waterdown (also amalgamated Hamilton) it feels like a transition zone as you head towards Hwy. 8. But I'd say the transition becomes almost complete just west of Hwy. 8.

[megadude]

I agree with the sentiments here:

- Kingston area is undoubtedly Eastern ON. Northumberland Co. towards Kingston feels like a transition zone to me.

- KW is technically in SWO. But with the KWC+Guelph triangle being so alike and so "suburban" it feels more Golden Horseshoe than SWO. But when you get to a place like New Hamburg, it definitely feels like SWO (for me at least). Same with St. Jacobs and Ayr.

- Some maps might include Dufferin Co. in SWO or Central Ontario. For me, when I'm driving north on the 400 or Hwy. 27, I don't get a Central Ontario vibe until I cross Hwy. 89 even though Simcoe Co. starts further south at Hwy. 9. And as the southern half of Dufferin is located between Hwys. 9 and 89 (Orangeville to Shelburne), I similarly feel like I haven't reached Central or SWO. I feel like I'm in the Golden Horseshoe or GTHA.

Another example: New Tecumseth, also in Simcoe Co., goes from Hwy. 9 to 89 and it's in the Toronto CMA, no?

The northern half of Dufferin from Shelburne to Dundalk (in other words, Hwy. 89 and beyond) is when I feel like I'm in a different zone of the province and no longer in the Golden Horseshoe or GTHA. Mind you, Dundalk is in Grey Co. but is the town on the border with Dufferin Co.

I know when I lived in Brampton, obviously lots of Orangeville people worked in Brampton. And Shelburne people as well. But I don't personally know of any Dundalk people who work in Brampton. Though I should mention that my bro in law worked with a guy at a plant in Oakville who lives in Dundalk.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by north 42

Hamilton is definitely Southwestern Ontario.

No, Hamilton and Niagara aren't in SW ON.

KWCG is the transition from Golden Horseshoe to SW ON. Basically Grand River I guess.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by Docere

Yeah, I don't think eastern and western (Southern) Ontario are that different. There's a thread here about splitting up Ontario into new provinces but the only "split" that (may) be understandable because of a fundamental cultural and economic divide is the primary division, Northern and Southern.

Agreed, but I think because of the geographic and demographic characteristics of Northern Ontario, Northern Ontario should be two provinces; NW ON and NE ON.

[Docere]

Re: Hamilton, it's hard to think of a place that has neither "N" postal codes or a 519 area code as being SW Ontario.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

No, Hamilton and Niagara aren't in SW ON.

KWCG is the transition from Golden Horseshoe to SW ON. Basically Grand River I guess.

I edited my previous post to mention the Grand River as well. Basically at the same time you were typing your post.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Docere

Re: Hamilton, it's hard to think of a place that has neither "N" postal codes or a 519 area code as being SW Ontario.

True.