The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by Smevo

. Though I don't agree with the strategy of making comparisons and downplaying other cities, if you were them, why would you stop doing what was working?

I don't know, maybe to put a stop the how much the rest of the region detests them because of it?

[Smevo]

M'eh, if they don't feel bad for their strategy, then I don't have to feel bad for not wanting to live there. Even though I'd like to see every city in the Maritimes succeed, I can still be picky about where I live.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by kwajo

haha, I can't help but laugh at this discussion because Halifax is now beginning to see what Saint John has been bitching about for years. The articles with numbers which seem to slant falsely in Moncton's favour, the glorified self-promotion/propaganda, the inferiority complex, et cetera. I remember years ago when this starting ramping up and the PR started about how grand a destination Moncton was, and that they started downplaying the fact Moncton didn't have much to offer as an urban centre by promoting how it was not just a city, but the centre of activity for the Maritimes (they love that Hub word). People had to pass through it at some point (even if it didn't seem like there was much reason to) so they might as well get them to stop by. I recall this one PR blitz several years ago where the Moncton Board of Trade wanted the city declared the largest in the province because (according to them) if you counted all the people that come to Moncton to shop during a week and added that to the population figures, then they'd pass Saint John. Nevermind the fact that no other city in the world includes retail tourists as resident population, but they wanted the include people coming from PEI, the North Shore, Sussex, and so on. In any event, I guess that now that Moncton feels like they have "beaten" Saint John, they have set their eyes squarely on Halifax, which hopefully will mean that they will leave Saint John alone now.

I really do have to take my hat off to Moncton, they really know how to promote themselves by not only pumping up their own strengths, but by taking the strengths of others and diminishing them - frankly the whole region could probably learn a little from them in that regard.

Anyway, congrats on the concert announcement, I'm sure in some way it'll help the province as a whole, so I won't complain.

Population based on retail shoppers I have never heard of such a thing..is this really true? did they really suggest this.

[Smevo]

I don't remember it but it could have been before I moved to the province. With the Moncton Board of Trade, it's quite possible. Business groups love to propose things like that during PR blitzes.

Anyway, let's stop the kneejerk cheapshots at the city and get this back to being a development thread again.

[ElevatorGuy]

Moncton doesnt even have a board of trade...I have never heard of this but would love to see the article if it exists because it sounds foolish. I have seen articles that state how the population swells on the weekends but that was from some jerked off reporter. Dont blame City Hall for for the papers bull shit stories. Moncton has never been taken seriously in this region and the paper is trying to change that. I dont agree with everything said in the paper but I do agree with self promotion. People in Saint John are pissed about Moncton, its doing better right now and promoting its self like it is. What wrong with that? A job interview wont go well if you dont promote yourself and thats what the region has been doing and will continue to do.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by ElevatorGuy

Moncton doesnt even have a board of trade...I have never heard of this but would love to see the article if it exists because it sounds foolish. I have seen articles that state how the population swells on the weekends but that was from some jerked off reporter. Dont blame City Hall for for the papers bull shit stories. Moncton has never been taken seriously in this region and the paper is trying to change that. I dont agree with everything said in the paper but I do agree with self promotion. People in Saint John are pissed about Moncton, its doing better right now and promoting its self like it is. What wrong with that? A job interview wont go well if you dont promote yourself and thats what the region has been doing and will continue to do.

I agree with you 100%...The T&T isnt exactly the best paper in the world, but the thing they do best is promote Moncton, and I love them for that. I am proud to say that I was born in Moncton, and if I could I would live there for the rest of my life, its a great city, and as you said for a long time we have not been taken seriously by other cities. Self-promotion gets things going, how would anybody in the world even know about Moncton if we didnt yell our name from every mountain top available? We arent the biggest contender out there but we have a lot to offer. This strategy has been working quite well for us in recent times, with Moncton being the fastest growing Metro east of Toronto and all that, and I dont see it slowing at all.

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

I agree with you 100%...The T&T isnt exactly the best paper in the world, but the thing they do best is promote Moncton, and I love them for that. I am proud to say that I was born in Moncton, and if I could I would live there for the rest of my life, its a great city, and as you said for a long time we have not been taken seriously by other cities. Self-promotion gets things going, how would anybody in the world even know about Moncton if we didnt yell our name from every mountain top available? We arent the biggest contender out there but we have a lot to offer. This strategy has been working quite well for us in recent times, with Moncton being the fastest growing Metro east of Toronto and all that, and I dont see it slowing at all.

The one thing I like about Moncton's boosting is that It will probably keep Halifax on its toes. I think after decades of there being virtually no competition with Halifax whatsoever in the maritimes, this might be just the healthy dose we need. Not to mention it might be nice to eventually have a 2nd "big" city in the maritimes.

The only thing I don't like is all the snubbing of other cities that the media in Moncton portrays. It puts a really bad image on that city. If one of the newspapers in Halifax were doing the same, I would be writing in in protest.

Halifax and Moncton need to work together to bring economic prosperity to both cities.

[mmmatt]

I decided to do a little post as to why I feel Moncton is emerging as the primere site to hold large concerts in Atlantic Canada. I see four main reasons for this, ranging from most important to least are:

1. Location

2. Site

3. "Vibe"

4. Weather (we saw the consequences of this one at the Halifax Rolling Stones concert)



Location



Geographically spaking it should be no surprise at all that Moncton gets the ammount of large concerts it does...I mean we are the center of the maritimes. This map shows that, and below I have a table of distances from the major cities in the region. Moncton has 1.4 million people witin a 2.5 hour drive, promoters see that and all they think is $$$! In other words we get concerts.

Map


Distances

To Moncton From:

Saint John = 149km
Fredericton = 186km
Halifax = 284km
Charlottetown = 166km

Average Trip Distance = 196km

--------------------------------------------

To Halifax From:

Saint John = 432km
Moncton = 284km
Fredericton = 467km
Charlottetown = 348km

Average Trip Distance = 391km



2. Site



The second most important reason is the actual site where the concerts will be held.

History of major events

Halifax Commons

Pope visit (1984) - 80,000
Rollong Stones (2006)- 45,000+

Magnetic Hill

Pope visit (1984) - 75,000
Lynard Skynard* (1998) - 35,000
Rolling Stones (2005) - 80,000+
Country Rocks The Hill I (2006) - 45,000+
Country Rocks The Hill II (2007) - 50,000+ expected

*Concert also included Steppenwolf, Heart, Foreigner, Peter Frampton, Pat Benatar, and the Wolf

Layout of Sites

Halifax Commons

the site is basically flat, which does not work very well for concerts (if there is a tall person in front of you etc.) Also as we saw in 2006, flatness doesnt make for good drainage at all. The city hasnt put much money, if any at all (correct me if Im wrong here) toward construction of permanent infrastructure for concerts.

Magnetic Hill

The site in Moncton is a huge natural ampetheater, in otherwards a large gradually sloping hill, so it is easy to see the stage clearly from the very back of the crowd. This slope provides good drainage in the event of rain. The City of Moncton has put in some money to make permanent infrastructure for concerts on this site, and again this year they are putting 250,000$ toward better parking among other things.

Area

Another aspect of the site is the area in which it exists, in Halifax the commons is downtown, and surrounded by densly populated residential areas, this, as we have seen, creates a lot of negitive noise rising from the people who live in the area. It also makes parking/camping very hard. In Moncton the site is on the fringe of the city, so there are not as many people to complain, and there is plenty of space to park and camp.



3. "Vibe"



This is what Harold MacKay saind was a very important factor in Moncton beating out Halifax for this years mega-concert. This is also something that Moncton is known in the region for, sadly some people take it the wrong way, as we have just seen in this forum.

From T&T:

"There's a vibe in this city that's hard to explain to people unless you've experienced it," MacKay said, "all the way from your city staff, to the politicians, the people on the street, the media. Everything that happens in this city has a whole different vibe than hundreds of other places. It's the reason you're successful."

MacKay emphasized the role of the media in capturing the community's enthusiasm. He singled out C-103/XL 96 for gathering 6,000 names on a petition to bring Hill and McGraw. He also thanked the Times & Transcript as "a newspaper that covers our events and other events in a tremendous fashion."

Holding up six pages of clippings from the newspaper's coverage of last year's Country Rocks the Hill, MacKay said, "I took several copies of those plus the ones they did for the Rolling Stones and the reaction we had in Nashville was outstanding."



4. Weather


As we saw happen on the Rolling Stones trip to Halifax last year, weather plays a major role on people actually going to the concert after they have bought thier tickets.

Average Number of Rainy Days per year

Moncton - 90
Halifax - 231

Average Number of Days per year With Fog

Halifax - 196
Moncton - (they didnt have a number on there but I assume it is very low...personally I have only seen it once or twice in 9+ years living in the city.)


(info from Weatherbase.com)

[Wishblade]

In the case with Halifax and concerts, I honestly always thought Shearwater airfield would be a better spot for concerts than the commons, but that'll probably never come to be.

As for the site, the downtown site has its advantages. There are many more potential entry/exit points. You have stead access to the city transit system, and surrounding roadways. And the downtown nightscene is closeby for afterparties . Unfortuantely with the stones show it probably wasnt that popular of an idea. I honestly couldnt believe that weather. that was honestly the worst day of weather we had had all summer, and for some reason it picked that day.

As for vibe, you will probably see more public attention towards outdoor concerts in Moncton because, well they usually do create more of a buzz in smaller cities. The community seems to rally around it more as one. And just for the record, I don't really think petitions do all that much in the final say of where a concert goes. I've seen many cities do it, but I just never understood why.

And finally as for location, it is true Moncton has more people within a 2.5 hour drive of it, but cut that down to say a 1 hour drive, and its a totally different story, and both arguments can be used equally. So I don't know if its really the strongest argument in this situation, but it seems to work.

Anyway, thats my little rant.


P.S: I forgot to mention something that someone said on another forum Im on that would be a great idea. If we could have an annual festival, say like 2 days long featuring both local, and more well known artists, and alternate between Moncton and Halifax from year to year. I thought it was a wonderful idea myself.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

In the case with Halifax and concerts, I honestly always thought Shearwater airfield would be a better spot for concerts than the commons, but that'll probably never come to be.

As for the site, the downtown site has its advantages. There are many more potential entry/exit points. You have stead access to the city transit system, and surrounding roadways. And the downtown nightscene is closeby for afterparties . Unfortuantely with the stones show it probably wasnt that popular of an idea. I honestly couldnt believe that weather. that was honestly the worst day of weather we had had all summer, and for some reason it picked that day.

As for vibe, you will probably see more public attention towards outdoor concerts in Moncton because, well they usually do create more of a buzz in smaller cities. The community seems to rally around it more as one. And just for the record, I don't really think petitions do all that much in the final say of where a concert goes. I've seen many cities do it, but I just never understood why.

And finally as for location, it is true Moncton has more people within a 2.5 hour drive of it, but cut that down to say a 1 hour drive, and its a totally different story, and both arguments can be used equally. So I don't know if its really the strongest argument in this situation, but it seems to work.

Anyway, thats my little rant.

All very good arguements Wishblade, very true about the vibe, it is more noticable in a smaller city, but hey, thats what put us on the map...we are a small city that can work together to do great things.

As for the 1 hour/2.5 hour drive thing, We are talking about large outdoor concerts here, the kind of concert a person doesnt mind driving 2 hours to see. The 1 hour drive stat is more useful for a smaller indoor concert, like one at the metro center/ moncton coliseum...and yes Halifax easily beats moncton in that category.

[mmmatt]

Realtor study of 15 Canadian and 16 international cities ranks Metro Moncton executive homes No. 1 for affordability, London as most expensive

Times & Transcript (Moncton)
Thu 29 Mar 2007

If the financial minds of London, New York and Paris were really looking to get the most out of their money, they'd ditch their astronomically priced homes and bring their business to a city where they can get more oomph for a fraction of the price.

A Century 21 Canada survey of typical executive home prices in 15 Canadian and 16 international cities put Moncton at the very top of the list of affordable executive housing.

A typical executive home in Moncton costs $249,900. London, England topped the most expensive list with its typical home going for a heart-stopping $5.68 million.

"We are fortunate. We have inexpensive housing and the quality is good," says Paul Burns, a partner at Century 21 Countryside Realty in Moncton. "A lot of people can afford to own a house in Moncton that couldn't afford to own one anywhere else and we have tremendous quality of life here."

Singapore was second on the most affordable list at $304,135, while London, Ont. at $325,000, Bogota, Colombia at $368,852, and St. John's, Nfld. and Charlottetown, P.E.I., both priced $379,000, rounded out the top five.

While many Canadian cities fell onto the less expensive end of the list, not all offer executive housing at cheaper prices.

Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, and Victoria were among the top 10, with Vancouver coming in at number three. A typical executive home in the West Coast city is priced at $1.55 million, compared to $1.2 million in Calgary, $890,000 in Toronto, and $850,000 in Victoria.

While Vancouver still has the most expensive real estate in Canada, Burns says they should be looking over their shoulder at Calgary.

"If Calgary has another year like last year, they will catch up," he says. "Their prices went up 51 per cent."

Burns says housing prices are all about demand and concentration of people.

"In Tokyo they sell land by the square centimetre, it is so dear. We can't even begin to comprehend it," he says. "Even in Europe, the Netherlands has the population of Canada and is about the size of P.E.I."His counterpart in London, England is listing 860 sq. ft. apartments at $3 million and $4 million.

Moncton, unlike many of the other cities on the list, also has plenty of room to grow.

Burns says land in Moncton is also easy to develop in comparison to other Atlantic Canadian cities like Halifax, Saint John, and St. John's.

"It is relatively flat, the soil is easy to work with, there is no blasting through rock to put in a foundation," he says. "The cost of development is quite good and that reflects in your building lot price. You can get a nice building lot for less than $40,000. Put the same lot in Halifax and it is closer to $70,000 or $100,000."

Burns helped supply the information used in the survey. He says they were specifically looking at executive homes downtown.

"We don't have executive homes downtown, but for us it is only a 10-minute drive anywhere," he says.

Instead, Burns focused on the Kingswood Park area of Moncton's north end, though he says there are a number of areas in each of the three communities in Metro Moncton that would also qualify. "They were taking (executive home) as a three or four bedroom two-storey with a double car garage," he says, explaining that the term "executive home" is usually used to describe a home that is a step up from the average.

Burns says they also collect information for a company that helps businesses figure out the costs of moving employees from one city to another and what impact it would have on the employees.

He says Moncton is a very attractive option.

"Not only is our residential real estate inexpensive, our commercial space is as well," he says, adding these costs all factor into a company's decision on where to set up shop.

That being the case, why aren't even more businesses looking to move in?

"I don't know why," Burns says. "Synergy is the buzz word they use... One comes and they all come. They've sort of landed regional offices in Halifax, but some of the ones looking now have to be taking (cost) into account. Halifax is getting almost as expensive as Montreal."

[mmmatt]

Environmental organization sets 45-day deadline to start process moving for Petitcodiac River cleanup

Times & Transcript (Moncton)
Fri 30 Mar 2007

Get moving on river cleanup in 45 days or we'll see you in court, federal Environment Minister Loyola Hearn was told yesterday by the Petitcodiac branch of the international Riverkeeper organization.

Petitcodiac Riverkeeper chairman Michel Desjardins said in an interview that the action they expect from Hearn's office is to light a fire under the provincial government on the river file, which he said has been stagnating since an Environmental Impact Assessment on cleanup options was completed 18 months ago.

"We want formal communication from the minister to the province indicating that New Brunswick is in violation of the federal Fisheries Act," said Desjardins.

"The minister has the power and the responsibility to enforce that Act and that is why we are addressing him.

"If he does not formally communicate with the province we will seek a court order compelling him to do that."

Such orders are normally sought in the province's 'high court' or Court of Queen's Bench, most likely here in Moncton, but Desjardins had no other details on a judicial application yesterday.

However, the chairman assured that his letter to Hearn is no publicity stunt.

"Riverkeeper members include a network of legal people and if we have to go that far we will; we are assembling a legal team now and when that's done a lawyer will be able to give the details of what they will do.

"This is serious, we have known for years that the Petitcodiac causeway is an illegal structure because in 2001 (then-Liberal environment minister) Herb Dhaliwal publicly stated the causeway poses a problem from a legal standpoint," Desjardins said.

"We also know that in the 18 months since the EIA was completed we have seen exactly one action from the province - the transfer of the file from the provincial Department of the Environment to the Department of Supply and Services," he said.

"Since then, nothing and now we say enough is enough. Is this serious? Yes, absolutely."

With the letter having been sent just yesterday, officials with Hearn's office in Ottawa could not immediately confirm whether the minister had perused it nor whether a comment would be forthcoming on the matter.

However. Supply and Services Minister Roly MacIntyre said yesterday that Riverkeeper is wrong if it suggests the province has done nothing but sit on the file for 18 months.

"It was only last December that we finally got the full EIA report (the previous government indicated last year that input from federal officials was required before it could be considered a final report) and we had to wait for that," said MacIntyre.

"That was mandatory, we had to wait, and at that time we said publicly that we would take four to six months to review the four (cleanup) options it contains. Environment (Canada) said any of the four options are fine with them but there is a wide variation there in terms of cost, anywhere from $34 million to $110 million.

"We're talking a lot of money here," added the minister, "so we struck a committee of senior bureaucrats to bring an option to cabinet and we are doing that right now, we're in the process and we are not one day behind. "

The minister added that government will stick its six-month deadline but cautioned, as he has done before, that the actual project could take a decade to complete and the next step after an option is selected is to negotiate a funding arrangement with Ottawa.

Given that the EIA was undertaken by the province but at the behest of Ottawa because the river does not comply with federal fish passage requirements set down in the federal Fisheries Act - a point against which MacIntyre noted that Petitcodiac Riverkeeper does not argue - the province is hoping for at least a 50 per cent federal contribution.

After that's done planning alone could take "a couple of years," said MacIntyre, followed by two more years of monitoring changes to the river when the causeway gates are opened to permit freer flow with accompanying physical impacts such as erosion.

Then there's the actual construction, which could take "anywhere from two to six years," said MacIntyre.

"If there is good news to report today it is that we are committed to this project, even without full support.

"I remind that Riverkeeper aside, there are still some who are not strong proponents of this project, but we are going to do this," said MacIntyre.

[Haliguy]

I always thought the citadel was a great location for concerts its a natural amphitheatre there. I don’t know why they don’t have concerts there anymore I mean there use to be one there every summer. The only draw back is it can only hold 30 to 40 thousand people. I know there were 35,000 for the summersault tour, which featured the Smashing Pumpkins.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

I decided to do a little post as to why I feel Moncton is emerging as the primere site to hold large concerts in Atlantic Canada. I see four main reasons for this, ranging from most important to least are:



Average Number of Days per year With Fog

Halifax - 196
Moncton - (they didnt have a number on there but I assume it is very low...personally I have only seen it once or twice in 9+ years living in the city.)


(info from Weatherbase.com)

I personally don't find Halifax to be that foggy also when they say foggy days its not for the whole day it may be just morning fog. Its also worse in some parts of the years than others. In the spring there are more foggy days than other parts of the year and I have noticed it being quite foggy the last few springs. In late summer and into the fall when most of the concerts seem to be falling on there are hardly any foggy days at all.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I personally don't find Halifax to be that foggy also when they say foggy days its not for the whole day it may be just morning fog. Its also worse in some parts of the years than others. In the spring there are more foggy days than other parts of the year and I have noticed it being quite foggy the last few springs. In late summer and into the fall when most of the concerts seem to be falling on there are hardly any foggy days at all.

Yeah...its probably if there is any fog recorded at any time in the day at all...here is the amount of foggy days in halifax, on average, over the last 16 years:

June: 19
July: 20
Aug.: 20
Sep.: 16

You can find that info (along with lots of other cool weather facts about halifax) here: http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/w...efer=&units=us

[ElevatorGuy]

I find Halifax foggy. We dont get all pea soup fog but we get a lot of fog days where the cloud cover hangs around all day and ruins a potentially nice day. It was and I guess still hard to get use to.

[mmmatt]

Times & Transcript (Moncton)
Sat 31 Mar 2007


hockey players yesterday are among the last to use the Kay Arena in Moncton. Tomorrow from 4:45-6 p.m. there will be a public skate, which will be the last event at the venerable 35-year-old arena before it is torn down in the next few weeks to make way for a new yearround community centre.

[mmmatt]

From StatsCan

Airports with NAV CANADA air traffic control towers

The 42 Canadian airports with NAV CANADA air traffic control towers reported 315,722 aircraft take-offs and landings in January, up 8.2% compared with January 2006 (291,797 movements). Year-over-year increases in aircraft movements were reported by 28 of the airports in January 2007. The variations ranged from 99.8% at Moncton/Greater Moncton International to -47.1% at Chicoutimi/St-Honoré.

Itinerant movements (flights from one airport to another) increased by 5.6% (+12,378 movements) in January compared with the same month a year earlier. Year-over-year variations in itinerant movements ranged from a 66.7% increase (+1,865 movements) at Moncton/Greater Moncton International to a decline of 28.4% (-188 movements) at Chicoutimi/St-Honoré.

Local movements (flights that remain in the vicinity of the airport) increased by 16.1% (+11,547 movements) in January compared with January 2006. Year-over-year variations in local movements ranged from a 261.5% increase (+136 movements) at St. John’s International to a decline of 58.6%(-632 movements) at Chicoutimi/St-Honoré.

Atlantic Canadian Airports with NAV CANADA air traffic control towers

0. Name -- (national rank) -- total # of aircraft movements

1. Greater Moncton International -- (12) -- 7,814
2. Halifax International -- (20) -- 6,521
3. St. John's International -- (33) -- 2,951

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

From StatsCan

Airports with NAV CANADA air traffic control towers

The 42 Canadian airports with NAV CANADA air traffic control towers reported 315,722 aircraft take-offs and landings in January, up 8.2% compared with January 2006 (291,797 movements). Year-over-year increases in aircraft movements were reported by 28 of the airports in January 2007. The variations ranged from 99.8% at Moncton/Greater Moncton International to -47.1% at Chicoutimi/St-Honoré.

Itinerant movements (flights from one airport to another) increased by 5.6% (+12,378 movements) in January compared with the same month a year earlier. Year-over-year variations in itinerant movements ranged from a 66.7% increase (+1,865 movements) at Moncton/Greater Moncton International to a decline of 28.4% (-188 movements) at Chicoutimi/St-Honoré.

Local movements (flights that remain in the vicinity of the airport) increased by 16.1% (+11,547 movements) in January compared with January 2006. Year-over-year variations in local movements ranged from a 261.5% increase (+136 movements) at St. John’s International to a decline of 58.6%(-632 movements) at Chicoutimi/St-Honoré.

Atlantic Canadian Airports with NAV CANADA air traffic control towers

0. Name -- (national rank) -- total # of aircraft movements

1. Greater Moncton International -- (12) -- 7,814
2. Halifax International -- (20) -- 6,521
3. St. John's International -- (33) -- 2,951

Wow, I just looked at the stats on the statscan website. And some cities went way up, Moncton being one, and some way down. I didn't realize that such variations could occur in just 1 year. What would be the cause of this?

Considering the passenger counts for Halifax and Moncton, Im assuming Moncton must get a huge amount of cargo/carrier flights.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

Wow, I just looked at the stats on the statscan website. And some cities went way up, Moncton being one, and some way down. I didn't realize that such variations could occur in just 1 year. What would be the cause of this?

I have no idea...Im pretty sure Moncton added a couple of new flights this year that could be part of it.

and about the cargo thig...yeah, moncton gets more cargo planes in than Halifax Im pretty sure...but just about the same anual tonnage, which means that more small cargo planes come into moncton, while less, but larger cargo planes go to halifax.