Second cities

[liat91]

For the US I will use regions.
NE: DC
South: Atlanta
Midwest: Detroit
West: San Francisco

Germany: Hamburg
France: Lyon
Italy: Rome
UK: Manchester
Australia: Melbourne
Japan: Osaka
China: Beijing
Mexico: Guadalajara
Brazil: Rio
India: Delhi

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by liat91

For the US I will use regions.
NE: DC
South: Atlanta
Midwest: Detroit
West: San Francisco

Germany: Hamburg
France: Lyon
Italy: Rome
UK: Manchester
Australia: Melbourne
Japan: Osaka
China: Beijing
Mexico: Guadalajara
Brazil: Rio
India: Delhi

I have doubts about Rome and Rio being number twos. It could be argued they are co-number-1s. Aside from population bean-counting.

At least no one I know would call them also-rans.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have doubts about Rome and Rio being number twos. It could be argued they are co-number-1s. Aside from population bean-counting.

At least no one I know would call them also-rans.

I agree. While Piemonte is the economic powerhouse of Italy, Rome is still the most culturally significant city in the country. I think Milan is a solid second city for Italy.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SpawnOfVulcan

I agree. While Piemonte is the economic powerhouse of Italy, Rome is still the most culturally significant city in the country. I think Milan is a solid second city for Italy.

Politically too.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by liat91

For the US I will use regions.
NE: DC
South: Atlanta
Midwest: Detroit
West: San Francisco

Germany: Hamburg
France: Lyon
Italy: Rome
UK: Manchester
Australia: Melbourne
Japan: Osaka
China: Beijing
Mexico: Guadalajara
Brazil: Rio
India: Delhi

I was about to call you crazy and then I realized you ere talking "seconds"

The only one disputable would be Detroit. What about Minni? STL? Cleaveland? I feel like there are better Choices now over Detroit.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Obadno

The only one disputable would be Detroit. What about Minni? STL? Cleaveland? I feel like there are better Choices now over Detroit.

in the context of the thread, many people are using "2nd city" as the 2nd largest, or 2nd most important (as measured by GDP) city.

by the measures of size and economy, detroit is the midwest's 2nd city. but the twin cities are creeping up on the motor city, and growing faster.

st. louis and cleveland wouldn't really be in the running for #2 in the midwest.


2018 MSA population

detroit: 4,326,442
twin cities: 3,629,190
st. louis: 2,805,465
cleveland: 2,057,009





2010-2018 MSA pop. growth

detroit: +0.70%
twin cities: +8.37%
st. louis: +0.64%
cleveland: −0.97%





2017 MSA GDP

detroit: $260.612 Billion
twin cities: $260.106 Billion
st. louis: $161.281 Billion
cleveland: $138.980 Billion

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

st. louis and cleveland wouldn't really be in the running for #2 in the midwest.

*bass-y/garbled pre-recorded auditorium/voice actor voice*

As the ancient capital of the Mississippian Civilization , and later settled in the late 1600s by Canadien explorers, the St. Louis region is home to the primate metropolis of the lands stretching from the Appalachian uplift to the slopes of the Rocky Mountains. Poised to reach 17 million by 1997, St. Louis has....

*pipe noise*

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

in the context of the thread, many people are using "2nd city" as the 2nd largest, or 2nd most important (as measured by GDP) city.

by the measures of size and economy, detroit is the midwest's 2nd city. but the twin cities are creeping up on the motor city, and growing faster.

st. louis and cleveland wouldn't really be in the running for #2 in the midwest.


2018 MSA population

detroit: 4,326,442
twin cities: 3,629,190
st. louis: 2,805,465
cleveland: 2,057,009





2010-2018 MSA pop. growth

detroit: +0.70%
twin cities: +8.37%
st. louis: +0.64%
cleveland: −0.97%





2017 MSA GDP

detroit: $260.612 Billion
twin cities: $260.106 Billion
st. louis: $161.281 Billion
cleveland: $138.980 Billion

its ridiculous to have the twin cities, yet not have akron/canton with cleveland. it once was, but then that damned national park divider lol. but thats another story.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

its ridiculous to have the twin cities, yet not have akron/canton with cleveland. it once was, but then that damned national park divider lol. but thats another story.

A map will help with this. The Twin Cities are a contiguous urban core. Akron and Canton are more like satellites within the metro's gravity.

[Steely Dan]

^ yes. the twin cities directly abut each other and share 6 linear miles of municipal border with each other. as the crow flies, the distance from downtown minneaplis to downtown st. paul is ~9 miles.

akron and canton do not come anywhere close to directly abutting cleveland (the municipal limits of cleveland and akron don't even get within 15 miles of each other, and for canton it's more like 40 miles, minimum) and the downtown downtown distances are considerably further than the twin cities.

downtown cleveland to downtown akron: ~30 miles
downtown cleveland to downtown cantown: ~51 miles



the relationships between these places are fundamentally different.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by liat91

For the US I will use regions.
NE: DC
South: Atlanta
Midwest: Detroit
West: San Francisco

Not sure about these.

For the NE, Boston is a solid contender. DC as “second city” isn’t clear cut.

Also for the west coast, I think the Bay Area is really giving metro LA a run for its money. I mean, I know LA has more people, but in most other metrics the Bay Area is becoming just as prominent.

[Tuckerman]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Not sure about these.

For the NE, Boston is a solid contender. DC as “second city” isn’t clear cut.

Also for the west coast, I think the Bay Area is really giving metro LA a run for its money. I mean, I know LA has more people, but in most other metrics the Bay Area is becoming just as prominent.

Agreed, I think for the NE Boston and Philly are kind of equal contenders. DC remains a problem for any contention - 1. It is not in any state, but the bulk of the metro is in MD and VA; it is the Feel Capitol and thus os a special case in itself. IMO its slightly overblown importance is because it is not integrated into a major broad based city such as Berlin, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. These big cities with embedded National Governments seem to put the government into a broader perspective of thought.