Protests and their effects on Ottawa

[Truenorth00]

I genuinely hope this past weekend becomes an election issue. We need to discuss how protests are handled in this city and policing of them. Especially when these mofos decide that the entire city is fair game for harassment, with the authorities giving them a free ride because "fear of escalation".

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I genuinely hope this past weekend becomes an election issue. We need to discuss how protests are handled in this city and policing of them. Especially when these mofos decide that the entire city is fair game for harassment, with the authorities giving them a free ride because "fear of escalation".

Hope so as well. Protesting "freedom" of choice is one thing, but disrespecting locals, breaking existing laws and bylaws, dancing on the tomb of the unknown soldier who ACTUALLY fought and died for Freedom. None of that should be tolerated.

[Richard Eade]

I do believe that the Ottawa Police Services (OPS) felt that they were overwhelmed by what was happening, and could do nothing more than show a strong presence.

Take, for example, the ‘dancing’ on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier: It is always defended as being the actions of one person – that the police should have arrested that person. However, with such a large crowd, could that person truly have been ‘alone’? Any one of hundreds of on-lookers could have stopped the ‘dance’ – but no one did. It was recorded and posted. This ‘dance’ was carried out with the acceptance, and encouragement, of all those around.

I suspect that the understanding of any police was that the ‘dancer’ would have been supported by the crowd if they had stepped in to make an arrest. Police are trained to recognize dangerous situation and react with tact.

Despite there being some support for the convoy as being a peaceful, respectful, group who simply wanted to air their grievances; the action of the many contradict that view. The majority of these folks were NOT showing any respect for anything, let alone authority. Not only were they blatantly disobeying rules, they were actively displaying, and supporting the display of, anarchy. A complete disrespect of anything and anyone.

Even those who would not have openly defied authority, under usual circumstances, were swept up in the mayhem. And the Police recognized that. Truckers, for instance, who, for the last 20 months have been wearing a mask to go into restaurants on the road, deliberately refused to wear a mask here.

There might have been only a few who actually acted out in extreme ways, but they were, undoubtedly, emboldened by the knowledge that the vast majority of those around them were so caught in the ‘mob mentality’ that the crowd would have stepped in to support them had the police tried to arrest them.

Thus, the police could do nothing more than be as visible as possible, in hopes that that was enough to keep most people from going crazy – as long as they were not provoked.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I do believe that the Ottawa Police Services (OPS) felt that they were overwhelmed by what was happening, and could do nothing more than show a strong presence.

BS. They had support from the OPP, RCMP, half a dozen other city police forces and even the military if truly needed. If they got overwhelmed, that speaks to their incompetence in event/incident management. In that case, I want to know what Council is going to do to fix their incompetence.

I get not wanting to escalate. But zero enforcement? Come on. They could have at least gone after the most egregious folks like the guy blasting the train horn at 3am that you could hear kilometers away.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Hope so as well. Protesting "freedom" of choice is one thing, but disrespecting locals, breaking existing laws and bylaws, dancing on the tomb of the unknown soldier who ACTUALLY fought and died for Freedom. None of that should be tolerated.

We should separate the merits of their argument from the actual conduct of the protesters. dancing on a monument should lead to an arrest but actually smashing monuments is fine? I wandered through on both Saturdays and Sunday and found the media narrative to be misleading. I personally think truckers for example were allowed to cross the border for far too long without vaccine or quarantine but if 80% or more of the population thinks one thing the only way to demand change is to inconvenience people.

Is there more than 10% support for defunding the police for example?

Meanwhile the very useful mandates and lockdowns are approaching the end of their usefulness. The equally extreme fear of the other side notwithstanding. Ironically this is likely to only extend many of these measures especially in Ontario where Ford has nothing to worry about on his right flank.

Municipal election wise-I agree we should have more control over our own streets. Especially outside of the actual parliamentary precinct.

[Truenorth00]

The excuses made by OPS and the mayor are basically an invitation for future protestors to simply be more aggressive. After all, if they threaten violence, there will be no enforcement, for fear of escalation. What a ridiculous message to send.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The excuses made by OPS and the mayor are basically an invitation for future protestors to simply be more aggressive. After all, if they threaten violence, there will be no enforcement, for fear of escalation. What a ridiculous message to send.

You may have had something if that wasn't an already known thing in general....this isn't exactly the first and it won't be the last protest that "got away" with "too much" due to the risk of violence.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

You may have had something if that wasn't an already known thing in general....this isn't exactly the first and it won't be the last protest that "got away" with "too much" due to the risk of violence.

This is the first one that forced the Rideau Centre and some other businesses to close and saw "protestors" harass residents all over the city. What other protests have forced school closures?

Ultimately, the question is whether we consign this to a unique event, or whether we let it become a precedent.

[ortelius]

I live in the market. The non-stop super loud sound of horns felt like mental torture. Apparently it's a tactic used by torturers. It was maddening. It caused physical and mental pain, sleepless nights. You are probably aware of all of other cases of harassment, misbehaviour, threats to democracy, so I won't list them here.
I don't think we can negotiate with a mob. Ever. Otherwise they'll keep doing it. It really feels like something that unfortunately happens in other countries where a group determines what goes on in certain neighbourhoods, like cartels.
Is this going to become the norm in Ottawa with the Trump movement coming here?
Will I have to move to another neighbourhood or city?
I imagine eventually they will do the same in other big cities.
It's been really difficult.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by ortelius

I live in the market. The non-stop super loud sound of horns felt like mental torture. Apparently it's a tactic used by torturers. It was maddening. It caused physical and mental pain, sleepless nights. You are probably aware of all of other cases of harassment, misbehaviour, threats to democracy, so I won't list them here.
I don't think we can negotiate with a mob. Ever. Otherwise they'll keep doing it. It really feels like something that unfortunately happens in other countries where a group determines what goes on in certain neighbourhoods, like cartels.
Is this going to become the norm in Ottawa with the Trump movement coming here?
Will I have to move to another neighbourhood or city?
I imagine eventually they will do the same in other big cities.
It's been really difficult.

I live in north Centretown and not enough people appreciate just how excruciating this is. If they haven't experienced it they don't realize how devastating it is to sleep, mental health, etc.

I just had to leave Ottawa in order to be able to have some quiet. And on the 3+ hour drive to my partner's mom's house, we were both still hearing the horns and sirens in our heads. I still hear them now. I'm worried I have tinnitus.

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The excuses made by OPS and the mayor are basically an invitation for future protestors to simply be more aggressive. After all, if they threaten violence, there will be no enforcement, for fear of escalation. What a ridiculous message to send.

future RIGHT WING protests. If this were land defenders or BLM, you better believe this behaviour would be met with extreme force from the police.

The cops just don't want to hurt their friends.

[ponyboycurtis]

I couldn't imagine living at 700 Sussex.

In my brief sojourn today I witnessed countless improperly parked vehicles, both on the sidewalk and facing the wrong way .. blocking traffic... burnouts in the middle of intersections.. a truck driving on the wrong side of the road with people in the back of the bed (right in front a of police car mind you).

I can't help but wonder how different all this would play out if it was BLM or indigenous persons protesting like this.

Must be sweet being a white middle aged male eh?

I feel badly for the people who work at the Rideau center who are now missing days of work.. not that they probably want to be there and deal with it mind you. My friend works at the Nordstrom and on Saturday she said she was very much over it by 2pm when I saw her.

City could have made a mint by sending bylaw out and actually having the police back them up instead of sitting in their cars also blocking traffic.

[Kitchissippi]

I certainly have not seen a protest with so much profanity. The whole “F#ck Trudeau” seems to be part of the organization’s core branding.

[Jimmy Nimby]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

I can't help but wonder how different all this would play out if it was BLM or indigenous persons protesting like this.

Must be sweet being a white middle aged male eh.

Are you serious? In the spring of 2020 BLM/Antifa torched and looted US cities with impunity. Remember the “Idle No More” protests where they set bonfires on railroad tracks? Probably not. Give your head a shake.

[Harley613]

I've been abroad for most of the last three months and I'm coming home in two day for the rest of the winter, would you guys mind clearing this up for me please? :Haha:

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

I couldn't imagine living at 700 Sussex.

In my brief sojourn today I witnessed countless improperly parked vehicles, both on the sidewalk and facing the wrong way .. blocking traffic... burnouts in the middle of intersections.. a truck driving on the wrong side of the road with people in the back of the bed (right in front a of police car mind you).

I can't help but wonder how different all this would play out if it was BLM or indigenous persons protesting like this.

Must be sweet being a white middle aged male eh?

I feel badly for the people who work at the Rideau center who are now missing days of work.. not that they probably want to be there and deal with it mind you. My friend works at the Nordstrom and on Saturday she said she was very much over it by 2pm when I saw her.

City could have made a mint by sending bylaw out and actually having the police back them up instead of sitting in their cars also blocking traffic.

My in-laws live at 700 Sussex. They had to flee two days ago and came to stay with us. Conditions were unbearable. A good portion of the other residents left as well.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Nimby

Are you serious? In the spring of 2020 BLM/Antifa torched and looted US cities with impunity. Remember the “Idle No More” protests where they set bonfires on railroad tracks? Probably not. Give your head a shake.

If we are being honest the violent BLM protests were all in the US and there was almost no violence or damage in the similar protests in Canada.

Though yes the Indigenous railway blockades in early 2020 did last about 2 months before they were lifted or broken up. Those weren't Idle No More though, if I recall. They were in support of Wetsuweten elders in BC who wanted to block a pipeline project through their land.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Take, for example, the ‘dancing’ on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier: It is always defended as being the actions of one person – that the police should have arrested that person. However, with such a large crowd, could that person truly have been ‘alone’? Any one of hundreds of on-lookers could have stopped the ‘dance’ – but no one did. It was recorded and posted. This ‘dance’ was carried out with the acceptance, and encouragement, of all those around.

I suspect that the understanding of any police was that the ‘dancer’ would have been supported by the crowd if they had stepped in to make an arrest. Police are trained to recognize dangerous situation and react with tact.
.

This is not a good example and is not supported by the video of the incident.

The girl is dancing and then someone yells something like "hey get down from there now!" at her in French, and then she stops dancing and walks towards her friends.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This is not a good example and is not supported by the video of the incident.

The girl is dancing and then someone yells something like "hey get down from there now!" at her in French, and then she stops dancing and walks towards her friends.

The person who posted the video is an active RCN Commodore. He claims they climbed on the grave AFTER he told them what it was. Here's the tweet:

After explaining to these less than fine Canadians of the hallowed grounds upon which they trode, this was their reaction in the name of Freedom. Unsat!

https://twitter.com/S_Thornton_332/s...CZyvR2qhA&s=19

I can't believe you're still defending these assholes. Says a lot.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This is the first one that forced the Rideau Centre and some other businesses to close and saw "protestors" harass residents all over the city. What other protests have forced school closures?

Ultimately, the question is whether we consign this to a unique event, or whether we let it become a precedent.

An honest question: What do you want the police to do?

Preempt? Barricade the city? Ban all protests?

Had the police started arresting people as they rolled into the city (On what charges?) it would have likely turned ugly as social media would have caused the protestors to regroup in a chaotic way. They might have turned their ire on somewhere not expecting it. At least Ottawa knew what was coming; had the mob descended on somewhere else (Montreal, Toronto, Kingston) not prepared, it might be uglier.

I don’t approve of the mob, but heavy handed tactics are generally their own reward. By letting the mob freeze and thin out, the police can clear the more extreme elements with less risk of a riot.