Post Panamax ships to call to Halifax

[teddifax]

Don't forget this is why they are raising the MacDonald bridge 3m.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Make the Halterm wharf longer and fill in most/all Black Rock beach. No room on the Dartmouth side.
Looked at the explosion in China and I believe it was at an auto plant. I used this article : http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-...-to-the-damage and this link : https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...y:39.0/zoom:12
The explosion was to the left of the two large white areas.......not many ships in that part of the port. Tianjin is an important port for all raw and finished products and close to Shanghai. In the Guardian article you will see a photos of a Wallenius car carrier similar to those which use Autoport.

The first Link that you provided estimated the China explosion at 24 Tonnes of TNT (or 27 tons). As a comparison, the Halifax explosion was estimated to be 2.9 kilotons, or 2,900 tons - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larges...ear_explosions . So in spite of the devastation of the China explosion it was very small in comparison to the Halifax explosion. However, even at 24 Tonnes the China explosion caused massive damage.

There are probably many residents of port cities that are rightfully concerned about an explosion similar to the Chinese explosion. Luckily the transportation industry is better regulated in North America.

On the other topic, hopefully if Halterm becomes busy it will be expanded as you suggested by extending the wharf.

For the "Big Lift" project the clearance under the MacDonald Bridge will be increased by 2.1 meters (about 7 feet) - https://www.hdbc.ca/about-the-project/ . Unfortunately, this won't benefit the Fairview terminal unless the clearance under the MacKay Bridge is also raised. Currently the clearance under the MacDonald Bridge at high tide is 46.9 m (154 ft) - https://www.hdbc.ca/macdonaldhistory/ . The clearance under the MacKay Bridge is the same - https://www.hdbc.ca/mackayhistory/

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

I don't know how true that is.. When it departed there was 2m clearance under the bridges.. It's tight but 2m is pretty normal for Halifax. They might not clear at high tide.. But that's it

Rick Grant covered the issue on CTV and pointed out that when the ship returns next week it will be high tide. He interviewed a Hapag representative as well as some Aussie.
The item is available on the CTV Halifax website.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The first Link that you provided estimated the China explosion at 24 Tonnes of TNT (or 27 tons). As a comparison, the Halifax explosion was estimated to be 2.9 kilotons, or 2,900 tons - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larges...ear_explosions . So in spite of the devastation of the China explosion it was very small in comparison to the Halifax explosion. However, even at 24 Tonnes the China explosion caused massive damage.

There are probably many residents of port cities that are rightfully concerned about an explosion similar to the Chinese explosion. Luckily the transportation industry is better regulated in North America.

On the other topic, hopefully if Halterm becomes busy it will be expanded as you suggested by extending the wharf.

For the "Big Lift" project the clearance under the MacDonald Bridge will be increased by 2.1 meters (about 7 feet) - https://www.hdbc.ca/about-the-project/ . Unfortunately, this won't benefit the Fairview terminal unless the clearance under the MacKay Bridge is also raised. Currently the clearance under the MacDonald Bridge at high tide is 46.9 m (154 ft) - https://www.hdbc.ca/macdonaldhistory/ . The clearance under the MacKay Bridge is the same - https://www.hdbc.ca/mackayhistory/

Thank you for the comparison of the Chinese explosion and the Halifax explosion. I was wondering.

[kph06]

Part of the reason for the concern about air draft on the way back is generally eastern bound ships are at less capacity than western bound ship.

On another note, watching the ships in the harbour has been a hobby of mine probably before I could talk, so I like it when it is a topic on local news - although some of the statements sometimes make me scratch my head. Recently one news outlet called CMA-CGM Vivaldi "one of the biggest container ships in the world". The photo below is one I like as it shows the progression of ships over the last few years. The Mayview Maersk (2014) is in the background and is in my eyes "one of the biggest container ships in the world" as there are only a couple classes larger. In the foreground is the Albert Maersk (2004), which at roughly 8,300 TEU is just slightly smaller than CMA-CGM Vivaldi.


Source: ShipSpotting.com user "lappino"

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by kph06

Part of the reason for the concern about air draft on the way back is generally eastern bound ships are at less capacity than western bound ship.

On another note, watching the ships in the harbour has been a hobby of mine probably before I could talk, so I like it when it is a topic on local news - although some of the statements sometimes make me scratch my head. Recently one news outlet called CMA-CGM Vivaldi "one of the biggest container ships in the world". The photo below is one I like as it shows the progression of ships over the last few years. The Mayview Maersk (2014) is in the background and is in my eyes "one of the biggest container ships in the world" as there are only a couple classes larger. In the foreground is the Albert Maersk (2004), which at roughly 8,300 TEU is just slightly smaller than CMA-CGM Vivaldi.


Source: ShipSpotting.com user "lappino"

Great find. It is interesting seeing a real, side by side comparison.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Make the Halterm wharf longer and fill in most/all Black Rock beach. No room on the Dartmouth side.
Looked at the explosion in China and I believe it was at an auto plant. I used this article : http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-...-to-the-damage and this link : https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...y:39.0/zoom:12
The explosion was to the left of the two large white areas.......not many ships in that part of the port. Tianjin is an important port for all raw and finished products and close to Shanghai. In the Guardian article you will see a photos of a Wallenius car carrier similar to those which use Autoport.

I spent some time in Tianjin a number of years ago, as I had a research grant with some clinicians at one of the hospitals there. It is a beautiful city, and part of what is quite interesting with it is just how European it is. Like Shanghai, it is one of those cities that was under the European sphere of influence, because of trade importance, for a long time. When you walk around the city there are still large sections where, based on the architecture, you would swear you were in Europe. It is even more true in Tianjin compared to Shanghai, just given the sheer massiveness of the growth of change in Shanghai.

Sad to see this event, but not entirely shocking given things like the occupational standards in China.

[Ziobrop]

So Budapest express is going to halterm. I got an email from someone at CN who was sending containers for hapag Lloyd to halterm

On the fire, I just read one of the chemicals present turns into an explosive gas when it gets wet. The fire fighters reportedly were dousing the fire with water..

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

So Budapest express is going to halterm. I got an email from someone at CN who was sending containers for hapag Lloyd to halterm

On the fire, I just read one of the chemicals present turns into an explosive gas when it gets wet. The fire fighters reportedly were dousing the fire with water..

The Chinese refute the claims re water dousing, for what it's worth.
The Independent has a good article quoting Toyota re their assembly plant. My contact in the city is not near the explosion and is saying nothing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10455079.html

[Colin May]

An in depth explanation of the knock-on affects of the Tianjin explosion and how it will impact Halifax and Canada. Long article but worth the time to read it.
http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?o...ain&Itemid=231

[Keith P.]

Article was written by a lawyer trying to note every possible worst-case situation. The apparent ongoing lack of safety and quality standards in Chinese commerce continues to amaze.

[fenwick16]

(source and full story: http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...ort-of-halifax)
Big news for Port of Halifax
REMO ZACCAGNA BUSINESS REPORTER
Published September 14, 2015 - 8:11pm
Last Updated September 14, 2015 - 8:29pm
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Two years ago, Halterm added two cranes at a combined cost of $20 million, giving the terminal four super post-Panamax cranes. Without those, “we would not have been able to attract this business,” Dinning said.

A ship with a capacity of 9,200 20-foot equivalent units will call on Halterm in October, and a day is coming when the port will see ships with more than 12,000, he said.

The Panama Canal is set to conclude its expansion next year, and a $1.3-billion project to increase the clearance height of the Bayonne Bridge, which connects New York City’s Staten Island borough with New Jersey, is underway.

“Once that bridge is lifted, then you will see (12,000) or 13,000 (20-foot equivalent unit) ships on the east coast of North America. Halterm is very well positioned for that,” Dinning said.

“We have no navigational, nautical or operational restrictions that we can’t handle any size container ship in the world.”

This sounds good for the Port of Halifax, especially since such large ships can't get into Montreal (for comparison, the following article gives the limitations for the Montreal Port - http://www.port-montreal.com/en/post...-july2013.html, there is also the problem of ice during the winter months).

Most of the news in the CH story was previously posted, except for the mention of 12,000 - 13,000 TEU ships coming into Halifax in the not too distant future (once the New York bridge is raised and Panama Canal expanded). The following image shows the size of such ships - http://www.porttechnology.org/images...en_and_now.jpg

Hopefully the Halterm terminal can keep up with the potentially large increase in traffic, since 12,000 - 13,000 TEU size ships won't be able to get under the bridge to the Fairview Terminal.

[Ziobrop]

I Posted Something better this morning on Halifaxshippingnews.ca

CMA-CGM Vela is 11,262TEU, and is on the Columbus loop Service. Her schedule isnt posted this far out yet, but i expect her in December.

USAC is Also bringing a 9000TEU Oct 18 - Which is also the Expected arrival of the first of ACL's new vessels.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

I Posted Something better this morning on Halifaxshippingnews.ca

CMA-CGM Vela is 11,262TEU, and is on the Columbus loop Service. Her schedule isnt posted this far out yet, but i expect her in December.

USAC is Also bringing a 9000TEU Oct 18 - Which is also the Expected arrival of the first of ACL's new vessels.

Thanks for the information.

What do you think will become of the Fairview Terminal as 11,000 - 13,000 TEU ships become more common?

Perhaps Halterm will eventually buy out the Ceres terminal and divert 8000 TEU and smaller ships to the Fairview Terminal. No one can predict the future, this is just my hope so that Halifax will maximize the use of the two terminals. If eventually the MacKay Bridge is also raised by a couple of meters then the Fairview Terminal could handle 9000 TEU size ships and smaller.

I wonder how long it will be before the majority of container ships will be over 9,000 TEU (decades possibly).

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Perhaps Halterm will eventually buy out the Ceres terminal and divert 8000 TEU and smaller ships to the Fairview Terminal. No one can predict the future, this is just my hope so that Halifax will maximize the use of the two terminals.

That scenario condemns Halifax to another generation or two of having container trucks barreling through the downtown on surface streets. If the pier needs to remain in Halterm's current location then we absolutely need a south end 3rd harbor bridge to get them out of the downtown by other means. The lack of traction on this is in some ways shocking, but considering this is Halifax, in other ways not at all surprising.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That scenario condemns Halifax to another generation or two of having container trucks barreling through the downtown on surface streets. If the pier needs to remain in Halterm's current location then we absolutely need a south end 3rd harbor bridge to get them out of the downtown by other means. The lack of traction on this is in some ways shocking, but considering this is Halifax, in other ways not at all surprising.

If only the Northwest Arm bridge was built 50 years ago then there would be a direct route from the Halterm Terminal to the BiCentennial Highway - http://www.halifax.ca/archives/docum...rbourDrive.pdf (but not the expressway through downtown Halifax).

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That scenario condemns Halifax to another generation or two of having container trucks barreling through the downtown on surface streets. If the pier needs to remain in Halterm's current location then we absolutely need a south end 3rd harbor bridge to get them out of the downtown by other means. The lack of traction on this is in some ways shocking, but considering this is Halifax, in other ways not at all surprising.

Indeed, something needs to be done about the trucks in downtown. After two years of living downtown I'm starting to get to the point where I can't take much more of them and am ready to live a little further from the core. I think if we truly want to increase the number of people living downtown then having an alternate route for the trucks is one of the top, if not the top, priorities. My ideal world would have Halterm moved to the former oil refinery in Eastern Passage... but I really have no concept of how much that would cost or if Eastern Passage is feasible for container ships to get in and out.

It will be interesting to see if the issues raises higher on the radar once people are living in The Maple and The Roy.

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for the information.

What do you think will become of the Fairview Terminal as 11,000 - 13,000 TEU ships become more common?

Perhaps Halterm will eventually buy out the Ceres terminal and divert 8000 TEU and smaller ships to the Fairview Terminal. No one can predict the future, this is just my hope so that Halifax will maximize the use of the two terminals. If eventually the MacKay Bridge is also raised by a couple of meters then the Fairview Terminal could handle 9000 TEU size ships and smaller.

I wonder how long it will be before the majority of container ships will be over 9,000 TEU (decades possibly).

i dont even think the majority of container ships now are even post-panamax.

Fairview will still be Busy. there will always be smaller ships. we are seeing the larger vessels on long haul routes direct from the pacific. these large ships don't make sense on shorter transatlantic routes, or even routes to the Caribbean, so they will always be there. they travel long and far, so the more you can pile on, the fewer ships you need. some routes are so short, you can do a weekly service with only a few vessels (ACL uses 4, Maersk uses 4)

Some Carriers may end up needing to switch piers; they wont care so much as long as they don't face extra delays as a result.

As for trucks downtown - Every city has them, every city complains about them. I don't think they are that big a problem personally. the run is pretty straight, and if they keep up on the potholes, they will rattle much less.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

As for trucks downtown - Every city has them, every city complains about them. I don't think they are that big a problem personally. the run is pretty straight, and if they keep up on the potholes, they will rattle much less.

We really do have a lot more big trucks on our downtown streets than most cities though. It struck me immediately when I moved here, and I'm definitely not the only one to have noticed: The Toronto Star's urban-affairs writer, Christopher Hume, was here five years ago. He wrote this piece praising the city, but damning the trucks as a blight on downtown.

It's noisy, it's hard on the roads, and I don't know if there's any safety data, but as a pedestrian and cyclist, giant vehicles with enormous blind spots navigating tight quarters and narrow streets doesn't make me feel so safe.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

If only the Northwest Arm bridge was built 50 years ago then there would be a direct route from the Halterm Terminal to the BiCentennial Highway - http://www.halifax.ca/archives/docum...rbourDrive.pdf (but not the expressway through downtown Halifax).

Well, we really do have an expressway of sorts in downtown. When one of those container trucks gets up a head of steam heading south on Hollis or north on Water, it is really quite intimidating.

The NW Arm bridge would have made some sense of course; however, I suspect had it been built, it would have been built undersized as was typical of the era here, and those trucks might well be prohibited, as is the case currently with the MacDonald. The problem with the route shown on that map is that it now goes through some of the most expensive real estate in the city on either shore of the NW Arm.

Failing a third bridge, I still see potential with some use of the rail cut for trucks, perhaps different than what was originally proposed a few years ago. It would be interesting to see what could be done if a roadway could be built 20' or so above the tracks in the cut.