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  #1  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 9:13 PM
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Nanticoke - new town (Townsend 2.0?)

https://www.thespec.com/local-haldim...=&utm_content=



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Empire Communities Inc. has pitched Haldimand council with a Nanticoke development proposal that claims to transform the largest and least populated industrial park in the province into a community that would attract people and jobs.

The planner for the multinational developer approached council on Feb. 14 and said that Empire Communities purchased 1,700 hectares that surround Stelco, and with it wants to build a community, incorporating 15,000 residential units with commercial sites, a school and waterfront lands donated to the county.

The plan would start with building water and wastewater infrastructure, and the company proposed changes to the county’s water supply project, the decommissioning of current and future wastewater systems along Haldimand’s Highway 6 corridor and incorporating water and wastewater treatment into one main 75-megalitre-per-day plant. The size was approved in a 2011 environmental assessment.

It would cost $180 million. Currently, the county has $80 million planned for related projects, and Empire proposed to chip in to start up development.

Most of Empire Communities Inc.'s land falls within provincially significant employment lands, and the county has been asked to request provincial rezoning permissions to start development. They estimate proposed commercial sites would generate at least 7,000 jobs.

Both the mayor and several councillors voiced their support for the project, and directed staff to create a report on the feasibility of the project for its March 1 committee session.
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  #2  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 9:37 PM
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"the sprawl won't jump out of hamilton to surrounding areas if we don't expand the urban boundary"... Sure...
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  #3  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 10:35 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
"the sprawl won't jump out of hamilton to surrounding areas if we don't expand the urban boundary"... Sure...
I'm like 90% sure you're kidding because Elfrida growth study area was designed for like 100,000 people versus this 15,000. That and this will not command the same demand because it's bumfuck nowhere. This is great for people looking for blue collar work, but not for the way Hamilton is expanding with white collar work.

No office job accountant is going to move to Nanticoke. They will move to Hamilton. It's also why zoning reform is so important and why I argue all the time here that missing middle density is key to improving the city and encouraging good growth because people will live in semis, duplexes and row homes once they experience it and realize it's not that bad, and the study showing demand doesn't include any thought on changing zoning. It just looks at demand in the current year where highrises, townhome complexes and single detached homes are the three only options. It misses the mark because it assumes we will be building identical housing in 2060. The first step is recognizing you have a problem: sprawl. Then you stop sprawling. Then you work on zoning reform to encourage people into missing middle styles of housing. I know many people that thought they needed a single detached house but then started living in something slightly more dense and realized it wasn't all that bad actually. The main thing is they wanted a decent living space. It sucks that if you want something over 555sqft you must buy a house otherwise you're buying a premium unit that will be more than buying a house.
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  #4  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 11:02 PM
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At 15,000 units, this would house 35-40,000 residents.

It’s not Elfrida, but it’s not the only place growth can go to either.
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  #5  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRitsman View Post
I'm like 90% sure you're kidding because Elfrida growth study area was designed for like 100,000 people versus this 15,000. That and this will not command the same demand because it's bumfuck nowhere. This is great for people looking for blue collar work, but not for the way Hamilton is expanding with white collar work.

No office job accountant is going to move to Nanticoke. They will move to Hamilton. It's also why zoning reform is so important and why I argue all the time here that missing middle density is key to improving the city and encouraging good growth because people will live in semis, duplexes and row homes once they experience it and realize it's not that bad, and the study showing demand doesn't include any thought on changing zoning. It just looks at demand in the current year where highrises, townhome complexes and single detached homes are the three only options. It misses the mark because it assumes we will be building identical housing in 2060. The first step is recognizing you have a problem: sprawl. Then you stop sprawling. Then you work on zoning reform to encourage people into missing middle styles of housing. I know many people that thought they needed a single detached house but then started living in something slightly more dense and realized it wasn't all that bad actually. The main thing is they wanted a decent living space. It sucks that if you want something over 555sqft you must buy a house otherwise you're buying a premium unit that will be more than buying a house.
Given the number of people from Toronto that came to Hamilton for a single detached house in Toronto, I'm sure there will be a market for these. Plus Lake Erie is nice and to me surprisingly undeveloped. I spent a week in January on Long Point and it was great even in winter.
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 6:22 PM
NortheastWind NortheastWind is offline
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Port Dover beach will be impossible to visit if this is approved.
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  #7  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 7:13 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
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Originally Posted by drpgq View Post
Given the number of people from Toronto that came to Hamilton for a single detached house in Toronto, I'm sure there will be a market for these. Plus Lake Erie is nice and to me surprisingly undeveloped. I spent a week in January on Long Point and it was great even in winter.
You can still commute from Hamilton to Toronto though. No such commute will be possible here.
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  #8  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 8:45 PM
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Port Dover beach will be impossible to visit if this is approved.
Everyone knows TP is way better anyway
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  #9  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jonny24 View Post
Everyone knows TP is way better anyway
Port Stanley is the best, and a decent distance.
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  #10  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 9:23 PM
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I imagine this community would be popular with retirees like Port Dover already is, as well as the new class of essentially permanent WFH or near total WFH staff which have to visit the office only a handful of times a month.

Live here and work in Toronto every day? Not going to work that well. Live here and have to go to Toronto for a meeting once or twice a month? Easy.
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  #11  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2022, 9:14 PM
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Stelco is not happy about this proposal.


Stelco fired up as Haldimand pursues Nanticoke development
'This puts us at risk, it puts the economy at risk'


https://www.thespec.com/local-haldim...velopment.html

Tara Lindemann
The Sachem via The Hamilton Spectator
Wed., March 2, 2022

Two weeks after the announcement of a proposal for a massive residential development on lands next to Stelco’s Lake Erie Works, the company has told Haldimand council that it not only opposes the development, but that it could imperil the future of the existing plant.

“Based on the information we have before us here today, we can provide you no assurance that we will be here in 20 years,” said Trevor Harris, Stelco’s vice-president of corporate affairs. “There is nothing in that proposal that gives us any confidence that we could survive that type of development for a variety of reasons.”

Developer Empire Communities has purchased 17 parcels of land surrounding the steel mill, and has proposed building 15,000 homes. The site would also include a school, and create up to 11,000 jobs. However, in order to make the development happen, the province would need to change the existing land use designation.

“This puts us at risk, it puts the economy at risk,” said Harris at the March 1 council-in-committee meeting. “Conversations that we’ve had with the City Hamilton and will continue to have with the province will also now indicate that this puts our operations in Hamilton also in jeopardy.”

Harris stated that both operations were entwined, and the loss of business would have a “broad, sweeping impact for our company and all of southwestern Ontario.”

He, along with lawyer Paul Simon, expressed frustration at learning of the plan through the local media, and not from the county, calling it “unfair and inappropriate,” given the business’s employment history and donations to the county over the years.

“A change of zoning to residential of these lands will have a negative impact to Stelco and its future operations,” he said. “Take a breath and consider what the long-term ramifications could be,” said Harris.

Mayor Ken Hewitt took offence to Stelco’s comments and said that the county's actions were being mischaracterized by company representatives.

“To suggest that we’re going to run roughshod, or railroad a planning process, or application against your better judgment, our better judgment, and the future and success of your industry, it’s ludicrous,” said Hewitt. “We are here today, to simply allow for the public to hear what’s happening.”

Hewitt said that the county and residents were being held “hostage” because of industrial land that had not been further developed by Stelco. He and other councillors challenged Stelco’s decision not to buy the lands in question when it had the opportunity.

The land belonged to a trust for Stelco retirees and former employees. Simon said that to his knowledge, Stelco “was not in a group of potential interested parties,” and challenged the sale as not firm.

Empire Communities planner, Steven Armstrong, confirmed that the purchase agreement was firm, and 17 land parcels beyond Stelco’s fenceline were now theirs.

If the provincial government decides to consider a change in land use for the site, the county would then begin the formal consultation process with both local residents and businesses.
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