Homicide stats in Canadian Cities

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Acajack

.

I am not aware of cities with crime problems that have cut back on police budgets and had good results, even if the money was redirected towards community programs.

What I've witnessed more is a spike crime where police budgets were cut, and then money quickly put back into policing.

That was the narrative in the few token cuts that were made in American cities and quickly reinstated. It would be impossible to measure but I do wonder how much of this was due to people taking advantage of highly publicized cuts, police refusing to do their jobs as a result of said cuts, or a combo of both.

I know when Toronto police have gone on various unpublicized work to rule campaigns to demand more funding things by and large didn't change. When I say unpublicized it's because they were doing it behind the scenes to send a message to the Police Board. AFAIK this happened multiple times but only ever hit the media when people noticed response times were bad (or worse than usual I guess). There was no spike in crime though. I believe something similar happened in NYC under De Blasio, who the police hated.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Even first nation communities are asking for more funding for their tribal police.

• Video Link

They're allowed to demand and live in safe communities too! Imagine that.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Acajack

They're allowed to demand and live in safe communities too! Imagine that.

Not sure what you're getting at with this comment, but yes I fully support them asking for more funding for their police. If Winnipeg needs to hire more first nations cops to patrol Winnipeg then by all means I support that. I was not criticizing them in any shape or form.

I also posted that video because earlier on we saw a comment about "colonialism"......I wonder if biguc would respond to the people in the video the same way for asking for more funding for their tribal police?

Originally Posted by biguc

.You can argue that the federal government should do more--colonialism was their gig, and god knows, it would help even out slash-and-burn provincial policies. But Winnipeg and Manitoba aren't helpless or blameless here. You had a better situation and trashed it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Not sure what you're getting at with this comment, but yes I fully support them asking for more funding for their police. If Winnipeg needs to hire more first nations cops to patrol Winnipeg then by all means I support that. I was not criticizing them in any shape or form.

I also posted that video because earlier on we saw a comment about "colonialism"......I wonder if biguc would respond to the people in the video the same way for asking for more funding for their tribal police?

I am 100% in agreement with you.

These people's concerns are almost always ignored.

They also have a right to be safe. Just like the rest of us.

[Acajack]

In most places where minorities have problems with criminals in their own community, the average minority person is not in favour of defunding the police. Though the loudmouth activists would lead us to believe that everyone wants to defund.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In most places where minorities have problems with criminals in their own community, the average minority person is not in favour of defunding the police. Though the loudmouth activists would lead us to believe that everyone wants to defund.

You know that's a misleading statement. Everywhere is different of course, but most polls showed that people in these areas wanted at least some form of policing reform including a shift towards community policing and other alternatives to the status quo.

I've always been annoyed at the term "defund" as aside from the most hardcore of anarcho activists it really means a redistribution of funding and/or reimagining of what policing currently is.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In most places where minorities have problems with criminals in their own community, the average minority person is not in favour of defunding the police. Though the loudmouth activists would lead us to believe that everyone wants to defund.

This is very true. At least that is what I see in Latino communities in the US. I am glad to see a growing number of young Latinos joining police forces across the US.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by biguc

I feel sorry for anyone in your life, although I doubt there are many. You're not a good person and you're really, really stupid.

This is going too far, biguc.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This is going too far, biguc.

He's copped to abusing small animals for entertainment. That he argues in bad faith and lives by an insane us-vs-them morality wherein anyone he disagrees with is the source of crime is pretty minor bad person behaviour in comparison, but still just that.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Luisito

I think we all agree the roots causes of crime need to be addressed. .

Even you?

You've just called this making excuses--what you claimed I was doing by suggesting that there's a clear correlation between cutting programs that dealt with the root causes of crime, and rising crime rates.

And through some mystical mechanism that makes me the cause of crime.

See, that's an insult, to common sense and coherence, but also to me. You have insulted me repeatedly, with snide, irrelevant comments, shitty emojis, and by introducing strawmen in my name.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Not sure what you're getting at with this comment, but yes I fully support them asking for more funding for their police. If Winnipeg needs to hire more first nations cops to patrol Winnipeg then by all means I support that. I was not criticizing them in any shape or form.

I also posted that video because earlier on we saw a comment about "colonialism"......I wonder if biguc would respond to the people in the video the same way for asking for more funding for their tribal police?

Never had anything to say about any of this. WPS doesn't have anything to do with tribal policing. Never had anything to say about meta-discussions on defunding police. Funding for tribal police forces is an entirely different discussion than funding for WPS.

Following me around with this bullshit is harassment.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This is going too far, biguc.

Yup. He doesn't like what I had to say so they resort to insults and keeps on doing so. Typical.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Yup. He doesn't like what I had to say so they resort to insults and keeps on doing so. Typical.

Even the smart ones often resort to childish insults these days.

[Acajack]

In somewhat related news, the Quebec government announced today it would be appealling a recent court ruling that bans cops from doing random spot checks, with the rationale being that in some cases this could lead to racial profiling.

The police of course were not happy about the ruling, and said that it could for example even prevent them from organizing roadblocks for impaired driving.

We'll see where this goes.

[phone]

Notwithstanding any name-calling, there does appear to be a concerted effort from some to completely avoid the point that there does appear to be a causal link between the removal of community supports and an increase in crime, which is altogether separate from considerations regarding policing.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by phone

Notwithstanding any name-calling, there does appear to be a concerted effort from some to completely avoid the point that there does appear to be a causal link between the removal of community supports and an increase in crime, which is altogether separate from considerations regarding policing.

Agreed.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by phone

Notwithstanding any name-calling, there does appear to be a concerted effort from some to completely avoid the point that there does appear to be a causal link between the removal of community supports and an increase in crime, which is altogether separate from considerations regarding policing.

I don't think anyone has spoken out against these community supports, but rather than in some cases (Winnipeg's in particular) they won't be enough, and some degree of repression will be necessary.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by phone

Notwithstanding any name-calling, there does appear to be a concerted effort from some to completely avoid the point that there does appear to be a causal link between the removal of community supports and an increase in crime, which is altogether separate from considerations regarding policing.

Supports have not been removed though. In fact in some cases they've increased. I personally know several people that work in a few drop in centers and support programs here in Winnipeg.

No one is against supports for people. In the mean time though, what do the rest of us do? Smile when we have our property vandalized, our property stolen? Or worse are physically assaulted? It's getting really bad and people want increased security. Not just bus drivers.


Making blanket statements about cops and calling them assholes is part of the problem. So many people here have no respect for the law.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Supports have not been removed though. In fact in some cases they've increased. I personally know several people that work in a few drop in centers and support programs here in Winnipeg.

No one is against supports for people. In the mean time though, what do the rest of us do? Smile when we have our property vandalized, our property stolen? Or worse are physically assaulted? It's getting really bad and people want increased security. Not just bus drivers.


Making blanket statements about cops and calling them assholes is part of the problem. So many people here have no respect for the law.

It seems like any police intervention these days, even if the suspect involved is an axe-murderer, leads to abuse like you hear on this video:

https://twitter.com/VANDUpeople/stat...a5ae86d30.html

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It seems like any police intervention these days, even if the suspect involved is an axe-murderer, leads to abuse like you hear on this video:

https://twitter.com/VANDUpeople/stat...a5ae86d30.html

Yeah thats pretty bad. It's Typical though. I have actually seen worse than that. There is a video online from Toronto of a suspect fleeing from the cops then turns around and opens fire on them. When the cops shoot back and hit him all hell breaks loose. People start getting on the cops. The video is crystal clear yet people still wanted to paint the cops as the bad guys. Will look for the video later.

Being a cop is a thankless job. Winnipeg is the only city I've lived in where I've actually had to call them. I have lived in Mtl and Toronto, both cities much bigger than WPG and never had to call the cops. Living here has given me a new appreciation for law enforcement. The amount of shit and accusations thrown on them here is disgusting.