Austin | 318 Colorado | ~450 Feet | 40 Floors | Proposed

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by The ATX

We can guess what the project will be like with Hanover being the developer. When I close my eyes I see a 44-story apartment building that looks like their other two that are U/C.

Yeah. When I heard it was Hanover I just grunted/sighed. Aside from the warehouse district issue.... It will be generic.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by chundercracker

I've lived downtown for 15 years and frankly we don't really need any more wellness eateries, upscale Italian and overpriced douchey coffee joints. For a city that's supposed to be "creative", the homogeneity of its retail presence is depressing and impractical for downtown residents.

Preserving an old building isn't as essential as capturing the vibe of what was once there before. While places like 6th are in shambles, I'll take that any day over the manufactured "clean luxury" bullshit like the Domain.

Yep. 20 years downtown and totally agree. Becoming generic.

[MichaelB]

There has to be more that one way to skin this cat: Preserve 4th district . if you don't get it, you won't. But maybe if you read a little and open your heart , you'lll see why so many people are attached to that area. If you are interested , see below. I'm posting this here because there are folks I don't know how to reach that seem to have the same interest I do in Maintaining our vibe as we grow up. ( growing up to be interesting is way better than just growing up )

An Idea I'm passing on to friends in Austin: look to establish the Warehouse district as a Historical Cultural district. It is all that remains of a larger district that has had many identities. From a Statesman article:

For decades, going back to the 19th century, this industrial area along a former railroad spur hosted Austin’s chili and spinach factories, some of its breweries, lumberyards and dry goods stores, all housed in low, mostly brick buildings.

It also was once home to Austin’s primary Hispanic neighborhood, dubbed “Mexico,” which moved slowly to the east.

Beginning in the 1920s, as well as its infamous red light district, known as “Guy Town.”

By the 1970s, like much of downtown, the Warehouse District had emptied out.

In the 1980s, parts of it were made over into Austin’s main gay club district, with sprinklings of key music venues, including Liberty Lunch .Close statement Article.
Like most situations in that time. The Gays were frontier seekers. More like "where the hell can we go that no one else wants so they willl leave us the hell alone". Colorado Street had more gay bars than even 4th in the late 80s and early 90s.

It was also the home to Capitol City Playhouse in the 80s/90s
What is also often left out is that Oil Cans in the mid 80s was an African American Dance Club called "Fire and Ice".

Much like Rainey to the East. This are IS the reason people became interested in Downtown

Add to that the significance of a gay cultural center that has lasted 40 years in a state like Texas That to this day is trying to erase said community. So while to some gay bars are no longer the center of gay culture. To many , especially in Texas as large State that openly bigoted... they are a point of gathering and information.

As folks are gathering in other formats to discuss this, we are passing this idea around. Hopefully not too late.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

Yeah. When I heard it was Hanover I just grunted/sighed. Aside from the warehouse district issue.... It will be generic.

And quite boring.

[mercury6]

a tower with residential units and a good street level plan. I'm good with it.

[Geckos_Rule]

Originally Posted by mercury6

a tower with residential units and a good street level plan. I'm good with it.

I thought about the amount of street level interaction here, which appears to be : (1) keeping OCH as-is; and (2) having a restaurant.

Typically, I would say that is quite good for a building, particularly compared to the average you see (and the two other Hanovers, that IIRC have nothing). But, remembering that this is essentially keeping one of the four businesses on this block, it's basically replacing "4" with "2"...

On a related note, it seems almost silly not to have a second floor of retail/commercial space on that corner, particularly given that Hanger/Neon operated that way. There is definitely demand for spaces like that, and second floor open patios. For example, both the Austonian and 70 Rainey have them, and I know the plans for 80 Rainey has it too.

[sjk]

Originally Posted by Geckos_Rule

I thought about the amount of street level interaction here, which appears to be : (1) keeping OCH as-is; and (2) having a restaurant.

Typically, I would say that is quite good for a building, particularly compared to the average you see (and the two other Hanovers, that IIRC have nothing). But, remembering that this is essentially keeping one of the four businesses on this block, it's basically replacing "4" with "2"...

On a related note, it seems almost silly not to have a second floor of retail/commercial space on that corner, particularly given that Hanger/Neon operated that way. There is definitely demand for spaces like that, and second floor open patios. For example, both the Austonian and 70 Rainey have them, and I know the plans for 80 Rainey has it too.

Agreed!

[mercury6]

Originally Posted by Geckos_Rule

I thought about the amount of street level interaction here, which appears to be : (1) keeping OCH as-is; and (2) having a restaurant.

Typically, I would say that is quite good for a building, particularly compared to the average you see (and the two other Hanovers, that IIRC have nothing). But, remembering that this is essentially keeping one of the four businesses on this block, it's basically replacing "4" with "2"...

On a related note, it seems almost silly not to have a second floor of retail/commercial space on that corner, particularly given that Hanger/Neon operated that way. There is definitely demand for spaces like that, and second floor open patios. For example, both the Austonian and 70 Rainey have them, and I know the plans for 80 Rainey has it too.

great points. Regardless, I'm still good with it.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by Geckos_Rule

Typically, I would say that is quite good for a building, particularly compared to the average you see (and the two other Hanovers, that IIRC have nothing).

The other two Hanover buildings will both have at least one retail space in them.

[Urbannizer]

A petition is up against this one.

https://chng.it/WK5CXh5GhX

[kingkirbythe....]

Coconut Club, Downtown Austin LGBTQ clubs respond to demolition order

https://www.mysanantonio.com/busines...n-17078819.php

Who doesn't want a "cool, chef-driven restaurant" in Austin?

On its face, it's a pretty innocuous notion put forth by a new developer hoping to transform Fourth Street in Downtown Austin. To Coconut Club and Neon Grotto co-owner Cole Evans, it's an empty platitude, the latest in an ongoing push to change his city.

"It sounds like a pitch from someone who doesn't really know kind of what the community is they're serving," Evans tells MySA. "It sounds like development buzz-speak to me."

...

At a meeting with the architectural review committee of the Austin Historic Landmark Commission on Monday, April 11, developers presented a proposal to transform the block at West Fourth and Colorado Streets. Hanover representatives hope to present their case before the entire commission on May 4, at which time, demolition could be approved, which would radically change the look and cultural fabric of the area.

The article notes that Oilcan Harry's, which has a 30-year history in Austin, would be given a second life under Hanover's plan. After getting a temporary relocation, a new space in the tower would be afforded to the club at reduced rent. No such luck for the other LGBTQ clubs on the block.

...

"The response from the community has been incredible. I've seen a ton of people posting about it, people are going to City Hall to fight it, to make sure that we can keep it," Evans says. "We're very appreciative of that and I really, really love it."

Evans doesn't think that LGBTQ clubs are necessarily being targeted by developers, even in light of the recent news of The Iron Bear's apparent impending demise. He chalks it up to the clubs' prime downtown geography and, at the very least, takes solace in the notion that at least Oilcan Harry's can remain on Fourth Street in some capacity.

"I don't know what the motives are, but I do know how I feel about it," Evans says. "And I do know that it's going have a lot of fallout for the community of queer culture in Austin, and the repercussions will definitely be there whether or not the motives are malicious or not."

[ahealy]

That pretty much sums it up for me as well. Very classy response from Cole, who has been part of the Austin community for such a long time.

The more time goes by, the more I'm not good with this whole thing. I still applaud them for keeping OCH at the base, but the rest just sounds so unbelievably bland it's just not something I'd be excited for even if it weren't messing up a neighborhood. My fear is that this will very likely take the street level interaction way down from where it is today. Also realizing just how many people are very vocally against this one.

[Jdawgboy]

Yea I don't want this tower to happen at all. This is the one we will push back on and push back hard. Let's raise the roof at City Hall May 4th!

[mercury6]

not even a skyscraper forum is safe from NIMBYism. Build the tower, bring the housing density

[AusTex]

Originally Posted by mercury6

not even a skyscraper forum is safe from NIMBYism. Build the tower, bring the housing density

Its about preserving History and Culture. Not, "Not In My Back Yard," thought. We all love skyscrapers on this forum.

[ahealy]

Guys. Once again, it's not NIMBYism. Reddit may be a better place for the pigeonholing--not here.
I encourage some of you to respond with insightful responses, rather than "NIMBY". If we're talking urbanism: we as urbanists/architecture enthusiasts should lobby for something that provides diversity to a neighborhood and should be open to the idea of any rippling effects a project may have on said neighborhood/culture.

It's so close for me, but this just feels wrong at the end of the day...and that is OK to say here. This is a forum about skyscrapers in Austin, not housing inventory.

[mercury6]

Originally Posted by AusTex

Its about preserving History and Culture. Not, "Not In My Back Yard," thought. We all love skyscrapers on this forum.

NIMBY talking points. Time for self reflection

[ahealy]

Originally Posted by mercury6

NIMBY talking points. Time for self reflection

That's rude and again doesn't elevate our convo. Again, maybe r/Austin is better for this or YIMBY forum or whatever.

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by mercury6

NIMBY talking points. Time for self reflection

Your lack of empathy and understanding sure are homophobic talking points. I recommend you self-reflect.

[AusTex]

Originally Posted by AusTex

In my opinion any demo on this block, from alley to alley, is unacceptable.

This is the heart and soul of the Warehouse District which is quickly disappearing for Austin. This is Iconic, Quintessential and Historic Austin. It also happens to be the area the LGBQ... has visibly and peacefully mixed with all other groups in the city for decades. This is last intact block of the Warehouse District. Just preserving the facades is not enough. Alley to alley preservation of 4th Street between Colorado and Lavaca is essential.

I have been a skyscraper fan since 1973 when the 792' IDS Tower was built in my hometown of Minneapolis. For Austin I say build them and build them tall, however the Down Town of The City of Austin is at a critical point right now. Where do we preserve low rise buildings as entertainment venues which drive Austin's burgeoning nightlife scene. Certainly East 6th Street and this one block of 4th Street deserve preservation. Perhaps several blocks of West 6th Street need to be and Entertainment District as well. CC needs to act now before it is too late to secure a lasting nightlife scene in Austin. Highrise zoning will never allow it, but will surely kill it!

Originally Posted by mercury6

NIMBY talking points. Time for self reflection

At least your post got me to laugh. If you have more than 2 or three sentences to say then please say them.

I still feel strongly that this project will be one domino too many for the Wearhouse District. Austin's boom does not appear to be slowing and this is the heart of the district. Do not kill the Golden Goose, part of our History and part of our Culture.