CF Pacific Centre Developments - Page 18

dleung · #**341** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 8:53 AM**

So Vancouver... break it up into fussy little chunks to make a big building appear less monolithic, hence "friendly" apparently

Klazu · #**342** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 2:34 PM**

I would be fine with this bland design if they would build a tower on top of it. They could also finance the whole rebuilding with the money from selling those apartments.

Without the tower it's just so 'meh'.

LeftCoaster · #**343** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 2:58 PM**

That's it.

s211 · #**344** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 3:38 PM**

Looks very Toronto-driven. Their new office towers are the very definition of soul-less.

trofirhen · #**345** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

Looks very Toronto-driven. Their new office towers are the very definition of soul-less.

True, but at least Toronto's towers are impressive, if nothing else. This one is kind of "Retrograde Blandsville " And Vancouver gets defensive when Toronto laughs at it. (I can see why)

SpongeG · #**346** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 5:17 PM**

i wonder if they will do anything with the granville side - maybe they could do what they did with nordstorm in salt lake city - a changing colour wall

• Video Link

officedweller · #**347** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 5:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by phesto

I don't really like the cladding on the protruding level above the Howe/Robson entrance (could be used to add a splash of colour or at least adopt the vertical cladding of the boxes) - but with any luck, the deck on top of the protrusion will be a deck for a Nordstrom cafe.

SpongeG · #**348** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 5:24 PM**

its hard to tell but it looks like they have an entrance mid building on the robson side?

it would be good to eliminate the entrance on robson and howe - that entrance creates such an awkward space - makes for a great window display area though

dreambrother808 · #**349** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 5:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

I don't really like the cladding on the protruding level above the Howe/Robson entrance (could be used to add a splash of colour or at least adopt the vertical cladding of the boxes) - but with any luck, the deck on top of the protrusion will be a deck for a Nordstrom cafe.

Agreed. The rest of the building is potentially sleek, but that corner screams Broadway Tech Park, as someone had previously mentioned. Hopefully it will look better in real life.

LeftCoaster · #**350** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 6:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x

The sandstone thing might actually be a Nordstrom thing, a lot of their stores have sandstone-coloured exteriors.

The lower levels are being tailored to a department store so they will have no windows and will be designed to the particular operators requests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I really, really hope that at least some signage / lights or a screen or two are going to be placed on that building, because as shown, that is incredibly boring for such a prominent commercial / entertainment district location.

It actually looks like a police station...

Of course there will be signage, but since the retail or office tenants have not been announced yet it would be awfully inappropriate to put signage on the renderings already. As it stands this is not even supposed to be public yet, don't know where phesto got his hands on the rendering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

what is PE?

Sorry, private equity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlousa

I'm not sure what people were expecting, looking at the renders if they are accurate I'd put the renovations in the ~$70-100M range, on top of buying out the Sears lease and losing 3yrs of rental income this is going to cost CF ~$200+M by the time a new tenant moves in. I think we're lucky we're getting this, not many owners would could take that kind of hit.

Thanks for injecting some common sense into the discussion. Like I said before this is not going to be an exciting design, both due to the likely tenants and the vast amount of the budget that went into buying out the Sears lease.

Just be happy the toilet bowl is going to be replaced people.

Metro-One · #**351** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

The lower levels are being tailored to a department store so they will have no windows and will be designed to the particular operators requests.

Of course there will be signage, but since the retail or office tenants have not been announced yet it would be awfully inappropriate to put signage on the renderings already. As it stands this is not even supposed to be public yet, don't know where phesto got his hands on the rendering.

Sorry, private equity.

Thanks for injecting some common sense into the discussion. Like I said before this is not going to be an exciting design, both due to the likely tenants and the vast amount of the budget that went into buying out the Sears lease.

Just be happy the toilet bowl is going to be replaced people.

Of course the up side is the toilet bowl will be gone, no one is complaining about that!

The downside is this is the lowest common denominator above that!

I am not expecting a ground breaking design, but hopefully they have some features along the Granville / Robson street sides akin to what SpongeG posted on their Salt lake City location.

If they can have that much colour and lighting effects in Salt Lake City, one would hope they would do the same for a location in the heart of Vancouver's entertainment and commercial district!

Also I have seen many renderings that do incorporate the signage pre-lease, it just says "signage"

It also would not bust their bank to have 1 or 2 video screens on the Robson / Granville corner.

If the final product is this bland, I honestly wish this development could switch places with the Telus office tower...

Hed Kandi · #**352** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 7:06 PM**

..

TwoFace · #**353** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 7:13 PM**

^^^^
I was expecting cartoon characters.

The Telus Building (Robson) side has a similar nightly light show.

mr.x · #**354** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 7:16 PM**

Judging from the hints on the southeast corner of the building shown in the rendering below, it looks like the Granville side will have the same type of facade as the glass facade on the northwest corner.

logan5 · #**355** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 7:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlousa...
I'm not sure what people were expecting, looking at the renders if they are accurate I'd put the renovations in the ~$70-100M range, on top of buying out the Sears lease and losing 3yrs of rental income this is going to cost CF ~$200+M by the time a new tenant moves in. I think we're lucky we're getting this, not many owners would could take that kind of hit.

If these numbers are correct, Cadillac Fairview is paying over 200 million dollars to have the same amount of retail space with a bit of new office space? How much rent do they expect to get from retailers to justify this cost? Wouldn't they be better off starting from scratch and build more floor space than is already there?

TwoFace · #**356** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

If these numbers are correct, Cadillac Fairview is paying over 200 million dollars to have the same amount of retail space with a bit of new office space? How much rent do they expect to get from retailers to justify this cost? Wouldn't they be better off starting from scratch and build more floor space than is already there?

I would think that from the conventional mathematical standpoint it doesn't make any sense, as it would probably take several decades to brake even (maybe) on the investment.
But since CF and Nordstrom's are large companies with interests all over the place, they probably use "creative" accounting that helps them with other ventures.

LeftCoaster · #**357** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 7:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hed Kandi

Meanwhile in Tokyo...

Any purpose in comparing buildings in a city 15 times the size of Vancouver?

Can always count on you for a sensible contribution to the discussion Hed...

Maybe we should benchmark ourselves against Nanaimo...

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

If these numbers are correct, Cadillac Fairview is paying over 200 million dollars to have the same amount of retail space with a bit of new office space? How much rent do they expect to get from retailers to justify this cost? Wouldn't they be better off starting from scratch and build more floor space than is already there?

Now you are starting to scratch the surface of why there aren't hundreds of millions of dollars sitting around to build some architectural masterpiece...

itinerant · #**358** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 7:59 PM**

This really is a horrendous waste of resources to concoct this mishmash of a building together. It is at one of the most prominent locations in the centre of the city, and CF thinks that recladding to make it look like a sad stack of 80's lowrise office blocks with retail chunked underneath is an improvement is ludicrous. We could potentially be stuck with this for a couple decades..?!

I strongly suggest to CF and the COV to please consider what is possible in budget, and redirect their resources into a design that meets the programming that CF desires (which I have no problem with) in a package that can withstand a few decades. The current structure with its very clean-lined 70's aesthetic (yes, I prefer the 'toilet bowl' way over this) and original cladding could be morphed into something that is much, much better than this.

What a disappointment if anything even closely resembling this is really considered.

jlousa · #**359** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 8:22 PM**

The city wouldn't allow much more additional space then already exists there, remember that this building is already roughly the same size as Park Place. Also note that Sears was paying very little in rent, while the new tenants will be paying market rates. Having a Nordstrom like tenant will also allow CF to increase rents in the rest of Pacific Centre more then if it remained a Sears. Even then I imagine the break even point on this 15-20yrs out.

Leftcoaster, do you know and are you at liberty to say if during renovations the existing sturcture will be fortified allowing for a tower to potential be built above the exisiting building if a future council is willing to increase the FSR onsite.

mr.x · #**360** Posted **Jul 31, 2012, 8:34 PM**

My main issue is with the Broadway Tech Park-like facade for the office levels in the rendering. I could take the sandstone facade, which is Nordstrom's brand, and the glass facade on the northwest and southeast corners, which are similar to the glass facade at Holt Renfrew.

Some simple local inspiration for the facade of the office levels...it can't be that costly (and yes, reflective dark glass would be preferable):

http://vreaa.wordpress.com/2010/09/