PHILADELPHIA | 1001 S. Broad Street Phase I | 180 FT | 14 FLOORS

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Bigstilt

I been at meeting for the residence who live on 13th street and no on there wants a 426 foot tall building there and Councilman Johnson has done a great job in seeing this building doesnt get built at this height. No building in the 8 blocks surrounding broad & washington is that tall. I love all the new builds expect this. Home owners have the right to contest this building because I sure there are zoning laws that prevent this size build so close to a residential neighborhood.

I'm like 90% sure this project can be built by right.

Also, while I agree that some of it is ill-conceived, I am entirely in favor of building it for one reason alone: it is the single largest metaphorical middle finger towards Councilman Johnson that I have ever seen. An enemy of my enemy is my friend.


Edit: Yes, he can build it by right, according to this permit issued in 2016 for the original proposal (and then subsequently the revised proposal).

https://li.phila.gov/#details?entity...S%20BROAD%20ST

[Skintreesnail]

I'd rather see a collection of nicely designed low/mid-rise buildings than one massive mess of a project. I'm not so much against the height as the design though; I've seen examples in Boston where a modern high-rise works well with the row house communities around it. Come to think of it, there are probably good examples around Rittenhouse/wash sq in Philly.

[eixample]

More than anything, that block needs a mid-block north-south pedestrian connection. The Broad-13th distance is greater than most cross town block distances. Super blocks suck. The placement of the buildings also put the playground and public pool partly in shadow, I believe, which is definitely not ideal. I don't think it would be too bad for the 13th Street rowhomes.

By the way, the fencing, sidewalk and trash situation around this lot are is awful. I kind of wish L&I would crack down on Bart, but at the same time I don't want him to have any more motivation to build this god awful design.

[City Wide]

Does anyone think anything will be build here any time soon, unless there's a change in ownership? This makes the SLS development look fast!

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Does anyone think anything will be build here any time soon, unless there's a change in ownership? This makes the SLS development look fast!

The developer likes to take one project at a time, and he’s currently working on the Inky Building restoration.

Perhaps when that’s done, we’ll see some movement.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Does anyone think anything will be build here any time soon, unless there's a change in ownership? This makes the SLS development look fast!

Not sure anything makes SLS/Arthaus look fast...The project in its hotel version was announced in 2013. They claim it will complete in May 2022. At best, that probably means summer or fall of 2022. But more realistically, we could be looking at 10 years here. On this one, McGrath could be right. Once the Inky renovation is complete, I hope we'll see some movement here. Preferably in the form of a redesigned project...

Blatstein has some Northern Liberties plans in the works, though: https://www.inquirer.com/philly/busi...-20180227.html I could see him returning to that neighborhood and letting this area mature, including with all the other new developments slated nearby for Washington west of Broad, before really getting going here.

[iheartphilly]

Blatstein is a wildcard here. His track record besides his mansion in Rittenhouse and Northern Liberties development are it. But, I think he's sitting on very valuable land and with the momentum on the corner of Broad and Washington and all the proposed developments happening between Broad and Grays Ferry Streets on Washington Ave, it would be a huge missed opportunity if he didn't act sooner but rather than latter.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Blatstein is a wildcard here. His track record besides his mansion in Rittenhouse and Northern Liberties development are it. But, I think he's sitting on very valuable land and with the momentum on the corner of Broad and Washington and all the proposed developments happening between Broad and Grays Ferry Streets on Washington Ave, it would be a huge missed opportunity if he didn't act sooner but rather than latter.

My personal opinion is that Blatstein is now more of a land speculator then a real estate developer. As long as he can pay the taxes on the land, he's sitting on a gold mine, that most likely will just continue to get more valuable. Maybe he'd be willing to partner up with somebody else, where all he has to do on his side is put in the land.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by City Wide

My personal opinion is that Blatstein is now more of a land speculator then a real estate developer. As long as he can pay the taxes on the land, he's sitting on a gold mine, that most likely will just continue to get more valuable. Maybe he'd be willing to partner up with somebody else, where all he has to do on his side is put in the land.

Could be...but a smart business man knows how to make money on the land and make money on the development too. He has the experience and should put it to use.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Could be...but a smart business man knows how to make money on the land and make money on the development too. He has the experience and should put it to use.

I'm not so interested in Blatstein's business success as I am in his desire and ability to do something interesting with this large site at a important location. I'd even be more then ok with a project that included a roof top village! I know that land speculation goes on all the time, but that doesn't mean I like it's short term results-----empty undeveloped properties.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by City Wide

I'm not so interested in Blatstein's business success as I am in his desire and ability to do something interesting with this large site at a important location. I'd even be more then ok with a project that included a roof top village! I know that land speculation goes on all the time, but that doesn't mean I like it's short term results-----empty undeveloped properties.

Mmm...agree with you on the broader point about land speculation. But this isn't the Disney Hole, directly in the CBD like 19th and Market, or a bombed out field of weeds right off Rittenhouse Square. Its surroundings on the immediate blocks leave a lot to be desired. To say the least. For example, in the two blocks to the North on Broad, we have a suburban style Popeyes, suburban style gas station, suburban style Rite Aid, suburban style duncan donuts. All with tons of streetfront parking. Oh and a suburban style McDonald's (again with lots of parking) and a weedy vacant lot. Then there is the Washington Avenue portion. I personally feel low urgency for this development. I'd rather it take longer and get something better than rush it when the surroundings need work anyway.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Mmm...agree with you on the broader point about land speculation. But this isn't the Disney Hole, directly in the CBD like 19th and Market, or a bombed out field of weeds right off Rittenhouse Square. Its surroundings on the immediate blocks leave a lot to be desired. To say the least. For example, in the two blocks to the North on Broad, we have a suburban style Popeyes, suburban style gas station, suburban style Rite Aid, suburban style duncan donuts. All with tons of streetfront parking. Oh and a suburban style McDonald's (again with lots of parking) and a weedy vacant lot. Then there is the Washington Avenue portion. I personally feel low urgency for this development. I'd rather it take longer and get something better than rush it when the surroundings need work anyway.

Unfortunately, I'm really not sure how the portion of S. Broad you are referencing ever recovers from the city allowing those businesses to open in that format in the first place. It's almost unfathomable given the current movement toward street friendly urbanity - resurgence of Jane Jacobs - Inga's crusade - yet here we are. Those businesses are thriving and won't be going anywhere in our lifetime unless the city zone's them out of existence. c'est la vie

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Unfortunately, I'm really not sure how the portion of S. Broad you are referencing ever recovers from the city allowing those businesses to open in that format in the first place. It's almost unfathomable given the current movement toward street friendly urbanity - resurgence of Jane Jacobs - Inga's crusade - yet here we are. Those businesses are thriving and won't be going anywhere in our lifetime unless the city zone's them out of existence. c'est la vie

What is the underlying zoning for those parcels? I figured the land would eventually be valuable enough to get sold for development. Are they zoned to only support a business like that? It's a really horrible stretch of no mixed use, but I figured this development along with Lincoln square would put the value through the roof

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Unfortunately, I'm really not sure how the portion of S. Broad you are referencing ever recovers from the city allowing those businesses to open in that format in the first place. It's almost unfathomable given the current movement toward street friendly urbanity - resurgence of Jane Jacobs - Inga's crusade - yet here we are. Those businesses are thriving and won't be going anywhere in our lifetime unless the city zone's them out of existence. c'est la vie

It will. South Broad down to Washington will eventually be zoned CMX-5. It will be sooner rather than later if Clarke is gone. We just need a few zoning progressives to replace the dinosaurs. Cherelle Parker replaces Clarke and a Gauthier-type candidate runs against Kenyatta, and we are halfway there. When does this happen? Don't know.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Unfortunately, I'm really not sure how the portion of S. Broad you are referencing ever recovers from the city allowing those businesses to open in that format in the first place. It's almost unfathomable given the current movement toward street friendly urbanity - resurgence of Jane Jacobs - Inga's crusade - yet here we are. Those businesses are thriving and won't be going anywhere in our lifetime unless the city zone's them out of existence. c'est la vie

One could easily have said the same thing of everyone's favorite Wendy's at 15th and Chestnut, which, I believe, was the most profitable Wendy's in the country. I doubt those restaurants will close exactly, but there's enough money on the line, that they will likely, someday in the next decade or so, be incorporated into larger developments.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

One could easily have said the same thing of everyone's favorite Wendy's at 15th and Chestnut, which, I believe, was the most profitable Wendy's in the country. I doubt those restaurants will close exactly, but there's enough money on the line, that they will likely, someday in the next decade or so, be incorporated into larger developments.

The Wendy's was (and still is) a groundfloor retail tenant in one of the most gorgeous masonry buildings in the city. How is that remotely the same thing as this: https://goo.gl/maps/ge322BnNKjYz6RG77

[City Wide]

doesn't zoning generally inform you the maximum you can build, and in same cases what you can't build, not what you have to build? So, if S. Broad has or gets zoning that allow tall buildings to be built it doesn't mean that they will be built. The new towers on Market St. east didn't come close to being as big as the zoning there would have allowed.

All I'm saying is that what happens in that stretch of Broad St. has more to do with supply and demand then what the City might or might not want to see in that area.

But until big change comes along I'm sure the City is glad to have tax playing drive through fast food places doing business.

And yes there are quite a few place that easily fit a suburban model in that area, but there is also that great old library/high school, and there's the Marine Apartments and the new construction at Broad and Washington. So what happens with Blatstein's lot, as big as it is, will have a big influence on the future of the area. If he builds a 2 or 3 story shopping center with street facing parking that would be very bad news. But if he is successful in building dense and tall (roof top village or not) then that would increase the pressure on the other properties in the area.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Londonee

The Wendy's was (and still is) a groundfloor retail tenant in one of the most gorgeous masonry buildings in the city. How is that remotely the same thing as this: https://goo.gl/maps/ge322BnNKjYz6RG77

I think his point is that it doesn't matter if those businesses on South Broad are profitable. If the land is upzoned and someone wants to buy it and build a tower, the owner of the land is going to sell it. It's is far better financially for them to do so. The tenants can return, he is saying. Or not. I think many likely would not once the construction on new development is over. I think McDonald actually may own the land where it sits on South Broad, but I think the other parcels have different business and land owners.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I think his point is that it doesn't matter if those businesses on South Broad are profitable. If the land is upzoned and someone wants to buy it and build a tower, the owner of the land is going to sell it. It's is far better financially for them to do so. The tenants can return, he is saying. Or not. I think many likely would not once the construction on new development is over. I think McDonald actually may own the land where it sits on South Broad, but I think the other parcels have different business and land owners.

These parcels are all CMX-3 which allows significantly higher density and use than what's currently there. Besides, if any developer wanted to build something bigger than CMX3 here, petitioning for a zoning variance to the councilman to upzone the property to 4 or 5 would probably take little more than a 37 second phone call (didn't that happen to Blatstein's parcel?).

These are thriving businesses that are making a lot of money for themselves and the property owners. I love the optimism but I just don't see these things going anywhere for a loooong time.

In the meantime, though, maybe Kenny Gamble can stop squatting on his lot at Broad and Christian already (what a joke).

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I think his point is that it doesn't matter if those businesses on South Broad are profitable. If the land is upzoned and someone wants to buy it and build a tower, the owner of the land is going to sell it. It's is far better financially for them to do so. The tenants can return, he is saying. Or not. I think many likely would not once the construction on new development is over. I think McDonald actually may own the land where it sits on South Broad, but I think the other parcels have different business and land owners.

Exactly what I was trying to say. If there's enough profit to be had, they'll negotiate with the owner to stay in the new, large scale (hopefully) urban building.