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  #421  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 3:02 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post



also, over in lincolnwood the old purple hotel site looks to be finally moving forward.



full article: https://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...214-story.html
So they tore the purple hotel down to build basically the exact same building but not purple... Great plan!
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  #422  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 4:10 PM
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^ How the hell is that the same thing? It meets the street, it's a mixed use complex... Not the same at all
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  #423  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2019, 5:38 PM
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  #424  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2019, 9:14 PM
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We have a baby canyon in Oak Park now
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  #425  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2019, 6:29 PM
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A quick read about the changing times.

North Shore lakefront mansions are languishing on the market and not commanding the top dollar that they used to:

https://therealdeal.com/chicago/2019...on-the-market/
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  #426  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 4:26 PM
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^ I was in Wilmette the other day thinking about something similar. I predict somewhat of a crisis for upscale suburbs, not necessarily due to home prices, but due to amenities and changing culture. While good schools are always going to be a factor in the pull of a neighborhood, types of stores and meeting places will also play a big role. Can you picture some tattered up, hip clothing wearing, 30-something who listens to Drake shopping at upper crust boutiques when they're 40?
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  #427  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 5:02 PM
wchicity wchicity is offline
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^ I was in Wilmette the other day thinking about something similar. I predict somewhat of a crisis for upscale suburbs, not necessarily due to home prices, but due to amenities and changing culture. While good schools are always going to be a factor in the pull of a neighborhood, types of stores and meeting places will also play a big role. Can you picture some tattered up, hip clothing wearing, 30-something who listens to Drake shopping at upper crust boutiques when they're 40?
I think this will become a problem. Upper-class suburbs of some other cities, like LA & SF, have adapted somewhat and added a lot more "urban" amenities. I've noticed North Shore suburbs have not at all adapted in such a way, save for the occasional hip restaurant, but those are few and far between.
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  #428  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 6:33 PM
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I think this will become a problem. Upper-class suburbs of some other cities, like LA & SF, have adapted somewhat and added a lot more "urban" amenities. I've noticed North Shore suburbs have not at all adapted in such a way, save for the occasional hip restaurant, but those are few and far between.
Huh?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Have you been to many of Chicago's suburban downtowns? Completely loaded with restaurants, shops, etc.
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  #429  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 7:08 PM
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I don't think they are that far from the truth. Many suburban towns do have thriving downtowns (which they don't acknowledge) but there are plenty that perfectly fit the bill they are describing.
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  #430  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 7:43 PM
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I don't think they are that far from the truth. Many suburban towns do have thriving downtowns (which they don't acknowledge) but there are plenty that perfectly fit the bill they are describing.
^ I'm not too sure I understand your response, I'm just pointing out that it's bordering on ridiculous to state that Chicago's suburbs have poorly adapted to changing tastes for "urban amenities" and then to use LA and SF as examples, when Chicago is one of only perhaps 2-3 urbanized regions in North America that had extensively built up its metropolitan area around the railroad prior to 1930, and has scores of examples of suburbs with walkable main street downtowns.

I mean, we've discussed this before, there is a long list of burbs we can name which have shops, multiple restaurants, etc in their downtowns, especially if we're talking about "upscale" suburbia, which wchicity specifically was referring to
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  #431  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 8:37 PM
wchicity wchicity is offline
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Huh?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Have you been to many of Chicago's suburban downtowns? Completely loaded with restaurants, shops, etc.
I completely agree that Chicago has some of the best suburban downtowns in the country, and I don't think they lack shops, restaurants, and other amenities. I do, however, think they lack some of the more "upscale" or more "urban" amenities that you see popping up in Silicon Valley, for example. That said, I know that the comparison is not apples to apples.
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  #432  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 8:42 PM
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I do, however, think they lack some of the more "upscale" or more "urban" amenities that you see popping up in Silicon Valley, for example. .
such as?

honest question.
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  #433  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 9:15 PM
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such as?

honest question.
Mostly high end restaurants, stores, gyms, etc. that you really only see in Chicago. I'm not saying that this is what the suburbs need, but I know that these are some of the amenities still pulling people into the suburbs in other cities.

Going back to my Silicon Valley example, trendy brands like Equinox, Blue Bottle Coffee, Nobu, etc. all have outposts there, but you don't see many of these types of places flocking to North Shore suburbs. For the record, I like the fact that all of these places are centered in the city, as it draws young folks who may otherwise move back to the suburbs to stay in Chicago proper.
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  #434  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 9:19 PM
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Isn't all this talk just about old money vs. new money and their corresponding tastes?
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  #435  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 9:34 PM
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^ Exactly.

Silicon Valley isn't even a good comparison to the North Shore, etc because Silicon Valley isn't a suburb. It's its own city/metro at least by some measures and has its own massive wealth generators.

A better comparison would be some of the Long Island/Connecticut burbs of NYC along the MTA rail lines. I bet those have much more in common with the North/West suburban Metra commuter downtowns than anything in Silicon Valley. In other words, this is not an apples to apples comparison
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  #436  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2019, 10:39 PM
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Personally I think the problem is taxes, fees and upkeep. Wealthy people are willing to pay a premium for Winetka, Kenilworth, etc. to a point. After that they will buy second homes in Palm Beach, California, Aspen, etc. or move. There is a ceiling in cold weather non recreational metros. See today's Crains article about Marcus Lemonis, he has property all over and his Montecito house is the top dollar property. I dont think this is unique to Chicago either, the NY tristate area is seeing high end outer suburban properties languish on the markets in Connecticut and NJ while the core city does well. Also, those types of towns make Chicago look downright libertarian in their permit departments. A lot of them now make you sprinkler your house, go to appearance commissions, have 20 people working a building dept. ( all making bank and getting fat pensions of course ) yet they still outsource all their reviews. It can be easily $15 - $25K to get a building permit for a typical house, double or triple for a whale. So ya, they priced people out. Good for them, maybe they'll learn but I doubt it. You know Oakland / Kenwood was once Chicago's top district, only taking 100 years and counting to come back.
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  #437  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2019, 2:38 AM
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^ Exactly.

Silicon Valley isn't even a good comparison to the North Shore, etc because Silicon Valley isn't a suburb. It's its own city/metro at least by some measures and has its own massive wealth generators.
Exactly. The people going to Blue Bottle Coffee or Equinox in Palo Alto or San Mateo are the same millennials who go to their locations in SF proper or NYC.

Anywhere that urban geography forces the trendsetters (usually wealthy, educated millennials) to live and work in the suburbs in significant concentrations, you'll see this.

Wealthy, educated millennials are suburbanized in SF because:
-the biggest employers are also suburban and traffic is miserable
-SF has closed itself off to new housing

In Sunbelt cities, you see similar patterns, but there, it's because there just isn't enough urbanity to go around.


In Chicago, it really is a pattern where the city is for younger people and the suburbs for older people with families. If I move to Winnetka with my family because the schools are great, we are probably sacrificing a lot of discretionary spending to afford the mortgage and property taxes, an we have kids so it's harder to get out to fancy restaurants without a sitter that only makes the night out more costly.
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  #438  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2019, 2:08 PM
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On the subject of "cool" suburbs, my friend and I were having a big discussion on this when we were back home in the Quad Cities. There is a lot going on there in the bar/music scene. In downtown Moline what was boarded up and abandoned in the 90s is renovated and thriving. Microbreweries, live music, lots of venues, and really good music being played.

We compared that the Chicago suburbs. Durty Nellies in Palatine doesn't pull in the same class of talent. I think I can count them on one hand. I'm talking Empty Bottle class venues. All the action is in the city. If suburban parents who haven't completely lost their cool want to go out, we go into Chicago. Suburbs can't compete.

Whereas if you go to a mid-market urban area like the Quad Cities downtowns, where its just that and 3 hours of corn in every direction, the market is there to utilize the old urban fabric and make it cool.
Also those city governments are looking for revenue, aren't looking to block every development.

In the burbs here it's constantly, "Well, we're not going to approve your zoning application for live music and a 2am liquor license because the folks in the $800,000 homes a few blocks from the Metra stations don't like it.

No $800,000 mansions around downtown Moline to contend with. Party till 2am outside in summer, no one cares.
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  #439  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2019, 12:49 AM
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^ "Space" in evanston seems to get a decent amount of high quality acts for a suburban venue, but evanston blurs a lot of urban/suburban lines, so perhaps not a great example.
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  #440  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2019, 6:51 PM
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