[Halifax] The Jade & Green Lantern (1595 Barrington) | Completed

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by RoshanMcG

Yeesh - every time, the first things I see are the mechanical louvers jammed unceremoniously into that sandstone facade.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Yeesh - every time, the first things I see are the mechanical louvers jammed unceremoniously into that sandstone facade.

Yeah, they really stand out. They wouldn't even bother me so much if there was some sort of symmetry to them, though I'm sure they are placed those locations for functional reasons.

Well, the building is not quite finished yet. Maybe they will do something to tone them down a little by the time it's done?

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yeah, they really stand out. They wouldn't even bother me so much if there was some sort of symmetry to them, though I'm sure they are placed those locations for functional reasons.

Well, the building is not quite finished yet. Maybe they will do something to tone them down a little by the time it's done?

I suspect that if the developer wanted to pay for it, they could have integrated the vents with the window openings - make larger openings and just have longer louvers than the minimum required. After spending so much on replacing the stone, I would have hoped they wouldn't downgrade the facade in such a way.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I suspect that if the developer wanted to pay for it, they could have integrated the vents with the window openings - make larger openings and just have longer louvers than the minimum required. After spending so much on replacing the stone, I would have hoped they wouldn't downgrade the facade in such a way.

That would have looked much better. Too bad they didn't go that way.

[RoshanMcG]

[atbw]

What kind of cladding will be going along below the sandstone?

[OldDartmouthMark]

If memory serves, it should be a black polished granite(?), assuming they are putting back what was taken off.

Zellers building 2009

[atbw]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

If memory serves, it should be a black polished granite(?), assuming they are putting back what was taken off.

Zellers building 2009

Ah so similar to the front. Makes sense! Definitely a better looking backside than the previous building. Really really glad they kept the original sandstone, even if they marred it a bit with the louvres.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by atbw

Ah so similar to the front. Makes sense! Definitely a better looking backside than the previous building. Really really glad they kept the original sandstone, even if they marred it a bit with the louvres.

That's my best guess. I don't want to take the time to look for renderings (if they were posted), but going by the theme so far of replacing what was there (except the back, which I agree was ugly) that's what should be going in.

On a side note, when I was a very little kid, the Sackville St. entrance led to Zeller's "bargain basement" - later it was the entrance to Secretary's bar (below the Misty Moon), and on one Saturday afternoon in the 1980s I was lucky enough to see a young Jeff Healy do a jam session with some local musicians - it was quite something to see and hear. Also, Jeff had quite a sense of humour, seemed like a super-nice guy too. Of course the current building has nothing in common with the original building, except the reuse of the cladding, but at least there's that.

[Hali87]

Untitled by Hali87, on Flickr


Untitled by Hali87, on Flickr


Untitled by Hali87, on Flickr

A lot of the stone detailing seems to have been restored/recarved, but ugh those vents:


Untitled by Hali87, on Flickr


Untitled by Hali87, on Flickr


Untitled by Hali87, on Flickr

[Keith P.]

When you move to central HVAC systems with sealed windows, vents become necessary. These buildings never had those systems originally.

[Good Baklava]

Google maps seems to list a new milk tea spot at this location, in the rear facing Granville street.

White Alley Bubble Tea https://goo.gl/maps/SBy5p1ow2fznCeSN9

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

When you move to central HVAC systems with sealed windows, vents become necessary. These buildings never had those systems originally.

I don’t think anyone disagrees with the need for vents. It just seems like there was no thought put into them, which is frustrating because it’s an otherwise top-notch development. Line them up properly and have sand-coloured grills and it wouldn’t be an issue.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

When you move to central HVAC systems with sealed windows, vents become necessary. These buildings never had those systems originally.

Yes - and if you want to pay for it, you can integrate the vents with the window openings. The next step down would be to keep them separate, but enlarge the small ones to larger than the absolute minimum, so they're the same horizontal dimension as the windows, and align them, mayyyyybe even try to colour match the stone (and pay for custom colour). Or, just let them fall anywhere the engineer deems most efficient, which is what we have here. Different levels of care... requiring different investments of time, energy, and money.

[Hali87]

At the end of the day it is good that they're able to improve the air quality and systems efficiency. It just seems like they can find a way to do it more gracefully in other cities, even with retrofits like this. Whereas in Halifax it always feels like some poor engineer is stuck frantically trying to find somewhere to fit vents at the last minute, and renderings rarely seem to take them into account (maybe the placement isn't determined by that point?)

[OldDartmouthMark]

This sort of detail would probably never be included in a rendering, which is kind of like a glossy sales brochure to show the proposed project in the best possible light (often leaving out pesky details like surrounding properties or showing the building from a location that's not possible, or in light conditions that don't exist due to its location/orientation). FWIW, it seems to me that a good rendering was never made available for this building as I recall searching for one and only seeing a small, low-resolution rendering from The Coast or some similar local website.

However that doesn't really change anything. The vent locations would most certainly be included in the architectural drawings as the mechanical systems of the building must be carefully planned out and must adhere to code (not to mention that they need these details to build it). It's not just a detail that could have been forgotten about until the last second, as the drawings would never have been approved without these details included. It's possible that the line drawing of the vents on the diagrams didn't show how badly they would look on the actual building, but everybody involved with designing/building this project would know about it. For this reason I am in complete agreement with eastcoastal - there were better options available (like yes, even just paint them in a colour close to the stone cladding), and for some reason(s) they chose not to do it.

Regardless, overall I think it's a good project, and I am glad that they chose to retain and restore the original cladding and build the podium in the same shape as the original building. In a pure sense it's facadism at its worst, with virtually none of the original building retained, but at least the finished product (other than the vents) looks good and is in keeping with the appearance of the historical aspects of Barrington Street (unlike the, IMHO, bad job on The Roy where -again IMHO- the back of the building looks better than the front).

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The vent locations would most certainly be included in the architectural drawings […] It's not just a detail that could have been forgotten about until the last second, as the drawings would never have been approved without these details included.

Au contraire, it can and does happen. The Nova Centre was half completed and they were still doing electrical and HVAC drawings. Similarly, my friend was working civil design on one of the North End apartments (not my place to say which) and the HVAC people were still figuring things out when concrete pouring had been fully complete.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Au contraire, it can and does happen. The Nova Centre was half completed and they were still doing electrical and HVAC drawings. Similarly, my friend was working civil design on one of the North End apartments (not my place to say which) and the HVAC people were still figuring things out when concrete pouring had been fully complete.

Well, that seems kind of, uh, pathetic... doesn't it? I guess this is why I didn't go into Civil Engineering...

So what circumstances would have a building half completed without all of the design work done? I have seen how designs can change due to unforeseen circumstances that appear once you are working onsite, or changes due to particular materials not being available or discontinued at the time, but an HVAC system? These were initial HVAC system drawings (not revisions) that were not ready even after construction started?

Regardless, the vent execution on the old Zellers cladding is not well done and should have been planned in advance for a better outcome. My whole respect of the construction industry has just dropped a few notches...

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

... So what circumstances would have a building half completed without all of the design work done? ...

I expect that for financing reasons, the owner starts construction prior to design being complete. In a case like this, the owner would accept increased risk of poor coordination related to decreased pre-planning. That would not stop the late-to-the-game grilles on the exterior being painted to match or sized to match. But would be related to lack of coordination between, say in-slab reinforcing conflicting with unplanned penetrations.

In the Zellers reconstruction, I suspect the Owner just didn't want to pay for the coordination, didn't want to pay for larger than the minimum required vents, and/or didn't want to pay for custom colour. Not to say they were being "cheap." We don't know how budget was prioritized... we're just left looking at poorly coordinated building systems.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Thanks for the explanation, eastcoastal. It still seems a little crazy to me, as HVAC design seems pretty straightforward. CFM requirements are set by building codes, so ducting size and HVAC equipment spec should be pretty straightforward. The only tricky part of it could be routing, which one would think to be quite integral to the design, and thus done concurrently (yet somewhat quickly, like plug it into your CAD package and optimal routing is calculated and added to the dwg). However, I'm not in that industry, so I am obviously missing something.

But... yes... outlet sizing and colour are not too complicated, and in the context of the budget for an entire building, one would think the costs for making them appear a little nicer would be negligible. I'm sure there's a good reason, though...

Regardless, I like the building, and recognize the complexity of putting together a large project like this with many moving parts.