PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[iheartphilly]

^
We are fortunate in some ways we are not Manhattan. Big rent drives away a lot of the unique retail and mom-pop retail and boutique shops. And, for the food scene, you don't get the mom and pops in the main commercial districts anymore because the asking rent from REIT and big time landlords are only supported by national franchises, big box names, and large operators. Little guys have no chance.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
We are fortunate in some ways we are not Manhattan. Big rent drives away a lot of the unique retail and mom-pop retail and boutique shops. And, for the food scene, you don't get the mom and pops in the main commercial districts anymore because the asking rent from REIT and big time landlords are only supported by national franchises, big box names, and large operators. Little guys have no chance.

I agree on these points. But crappy fast food chains are not unique retail or affordable mom and pops.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

There is only so much retail that can go in a city anymore. Have any of you been to Manhattan recently?

Unless places are filled in with dining there aren't many options. Its not just a Philly thing.

Yes. It's finally actually starting to see an upswing from where it was because landlords are moving away from unrealistic rent expectations they could never hope to get outside some very prominent chains. Also, successful areas are revamping to include more experiential retail and BOPUS places.

I think we are fortunate here in that landlord expectations on rent haven't been so unrealistic as they saw in New York. Walnut can get a little dicey, though,

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Nothing actually needs to be replaced. There are 4 vacant storefronts. But I wouldn't shed any tears if Popeyes and Happy Mark left. The pizza place is just fine. The 1000 block of Market also has lots of vacancies. I'm sure they will fill in as the "Fashion District" across the street gets underway.

Im sure popeyes has a multi-year lease that isn't close to expiring and Im relatively sure national "fast food" and similar chains are found in every major US city, even more prestigious ones like NYC. The east side of market is so much worse than this that complaining about the retail "quality" on this block is a true first world problem. What sort of tenants would be acceptable on Chestnut (which is not walnut BTW)?

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I agree on these points. But crappy fast food chains are not unique retail or affordable mom and pops.

I'm relatively sure rating fast food chains (or any restaurants) is just subjective. I don't think the presence of certain brands can really be based on arbitrary opinions about what constitutes "quality" food. If they can pay the rent, my guess is they are doing brisk business at that location. At least a national player can sustain the location and keep it occupied. 5 guys has been there for years- not exactly high end cuisine- but chestnut survives. Things are far worse to the east, more vacancies and more "low end" tenants.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Im sure popeyes has a multi-year lease that isn't close to expiring and Im relatively sure national "fast food" and similar chains are found in every major US city, even more prestigious ones like NYC. The east side of market is so much worse than this that complaining about the retail "quality" on this block is a true first world problem. What sort of tenants would be acceptable on Chestnut (which is not walnut BTW)?

Yes, and they aren't any more desirable or coveted in these "prestigious" cities. Nor is there such a congregation on core blocks in the nicest, most established neighborhoods (which Rittenhouse is here). There is certainly fast food in Tribeca. But I don't think you'll find a Popeyes, Wendy's, Duncan Donuts, etc.. on a single block, which was also supplemented by stores like Eternity Fashion until recently. Not that other cities should really matter to us.

As far as preferred tenants on this block...the tenants that are on every other block of West Chestnut and the tenants that are in the garage on Sansom that is either getting demo'd or an overbuild. I would have thought that would be obvious from this thread. It doesn't all have to be glitzy. Affordable non-chains with well-kept and attractive storefronts are good too. Yes, it's a first world "problem." Core Center City a stone's throw from City Hall, just off Broad, and a few blocks from Rittenhouse Square park is the first world.

Why are you continuing around the merry-go-round on this? Particularly as the focus of my comment was on the vacant storefronts. The tenants are what they are and where they are. They will turn over. We don't all have to like every retail spot currently on the 1500 block of Chestnut. East Market is an entirely different neighborhood with a different history and is irrelevant to this block. It is making great strides nonetheless. Begin story. End story. Last comment from me on the 1500 block of Chestnut at this time.

[65 Feet]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Yes. It's finally actually starting to see an upswing from where it was because landlords are moving away from unrealistic rent expectations they could never hope to get outside some very prominent chains. Also, successful areas are revamping to include more experiential retail and BOPUS places.

,

Is this response about the current state of retail property in Manhattan. If it was I believe the poster was talking about the Manhattan in New York City and not the Manhattan in Fantasyland. The retail situation is horrible but then again you would have to actually walk the streets to know it and not read investor sites that claim all is well, please keep the money coming.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Yes, and they aren't any more desirable or coveted in these "prestigious" cities. Nor is there such a congregation on core blocks in the nicest, most established neighborhoods (which Rittenhouse is here). There is certainly fast food in Tribeca. But I don't think you'll find a Popeyes, Wendy's, Duncan Donuts, etc.. on a single block, which was also supplemented by stores like Eternity Fashion until recently. Not that other cities should really matter to us.

Tribeca has a surprising number of dingy blocks, especially between Broadway and West Broadway near City Hall.

When you dig beneath the surface, it is actually related to elementary school catchments in NYC. Tribeca west of Church sits in what is one of the best elementary school catchments in NYC. East of Church is a different (less reputable) school and you notice the difference in the quality of everything (Buildings, Retail, etc).

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 65 Feet

Is this response about the current state of retail property in Manhattan. If it was I believe the poster was talking about the Manhattan in New York City and not the Manhattan in Fantasyland. The retail situation is horrible but then again you would have to actually walk the streets to know it and not read investor sites that claim all is well, please keep the money coming.

It's been quite lousy, and it's still not great. But yes, it's on the upswing. Rental asks are down and so are vacancies in many neighborhoods. Logically. Even you should be able to understand it. Most months, I am in Manhattan once a month and do walk the streets. I find Bleecker especially improved, and it had hit rock bottom and was in really bad shape early 2018. You'd probably have a better sense of things if you weren't sitting on your ass here in Philly playing keyboard warrior and trying (but failing) to get some zingers in.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Tribeca has a surprising number of dingy blocks, especially between Broadway and West Broadway near City Hall.

When you dig beneath the surface, it is actually related to elementary school catchments in NYC. Tribeca west of Church sits in what is one of the best elementary school catchments in NYC. East of Church is a different (less reputable) school and you notice the difference in the quality of everything (Buildings, Retail, etc).

I do agree with this. I haven't seen much of the type of stores as on 15th and Chestnut, but it's definitely not all luxe.

[65 Feet]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

It's been quite lousy, and it's still not great. But yes, it's on the upswing. Rental asks are down and so are vacancies in many neighborhoods. Logically. Even you should be able to understand it. Most months, I am in Manhattan once a month and do walk the streets. I find Bleecker especially improved, and it had hit rock bottom and was in really bad shape early 2018. You'd probably have a better sense of things if you weren't sitting on your ass here in Philly playing keyboard warrior and trying (but failing) to get some zingers in.

I can't believe anyone actually retains your services. I've spent 3 days a week in Manhattan for the last 12 years. Walk 7th and 8th in the village, if you were actually there you would see the deluge on the Lower East Side, the failed attempt of the gentrification on Canal street.

Posted today.
"Manhattan Borough President Gale Brewer, who requested the bill, touted the benefits of having a definitive resource to account for the city’s plague of empty storefronts as ever climbing rents push out mom-and-pop small
businesses"

https://ny.curbed.com/2019/7/24/2070...tail-vacancies

But of course you know more than those there

[65 Feet]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Tribeca has a surprising number of dingy blocks, especially between Broadway and West Broadway near City Hall.

When you dig beneath the surface, it is actually related to elementary school catchments in NYC. Tribeca west of Church sits in what is one of the best elementary school catchments in NYC. East of Church is a different (less reputable) school and you notice the difference in the quality of everything (Buildings, Retail, etc).

How is the zoning fight going in SoHo and NoHo to allow retail businesses over 10,000 sq ft ?

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 65 Feet

I can't believe anyone actually retains your services. I've spent 3 days a week in Manhattan for the last 12 years. Walk 7th and 8th in the village, if you were actually there you would see the deluge on the Lower East Side, the failed attempt of the gentrification on Canal street.

Posted today.
"Manhattan Borough President Gale Brewer, who requested the bill, touted the benefits of having a definitive resource to account for the city’s plague of empty storefronts as ever climbing rents push out mom-and-pop small
businesses"

https://ny.curbed.com/2019/7/24/2070...tail-vacancies

But of course you know more than those there

7th and 8th is not Bleecker, IQ 65. Marc Jacobs, Michael Kors, Ralph Lauren, and Brunello Cucinelli are all gone. In their stead, we've got Lingua Franca, Bonberi, Hill House Home, Margaux, the Daily Edit, St. Frank, Huckberry, Naadam, Slightly Alabama, Buck Mason, Ann Marie Murray's, and Paul Arnhold’s handblown glassware. Small brands, many of them women run, paying half the rent (or less) of those deceased luxury chains, and all with devoted customer bases. That is just the portion of Bleecker in the Village. There are many such revivals in the last 6 months. I don't know what YOU do, but whatever it is, I'm sure no one retains YOUR services considering your struggle with basic reading comprehension. As to Gale Brewer, yes, most people know more than her. Even mildly retarded folk. Not sure you do, though...

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Tribeca has a surprising number of dingy blocks, especially between Broadway and West Broadway near City Hall.

When you dig beneath the surface, it is actually related to elementary school catchments in NYC. Tribeca west of Church sits in what is one of the best elementary school catchments in NYC. East of Church is a different (less reputable) school and you notice the difference in the quality of everything (Buildings, Retail, etc).

I love it when people compare philly to Utopian cities with minimal issues and universal happiness. I remember walking from Penn Station to Javits and seeing Crown Fried Chicken AND chain fast food places on 34th street. It's been a few years so perhaps all that has been replaced by white table cloth dining.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I do agree with this. I haven't seen much of the type of stores as on 15th and Chestnut, but it's definitely not all luxe.

Staples, Del Friscos, Wells Fargo and soon whatever retail is in the bottom of the W- that's the stuff of major concern? I think that's the 15th and Chestnut intersection in Philly.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Staples, Del Friscos, Wells Fargo and soon whatever retail is in the bottom of the W- that's the stuff of major concern? I think that's the 15th and Chestnut intersection in Philly.

Nothing is of concern. I love every store on that block. Even the vacant ones.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Nothing is of concern. I love every store on that block. Even the vacant ones.

Well hopefully we can land a CFC like Manhattan (and some more hot dog carts). Got to keep up with the Big Apple.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Well hopefully we can land a CFC like Manhattan (and some more hot dog carts). Got to keep up with the Big Apple.

I don't know what CFC is. Since this thread is actually supposed to be about development, here is a nice little one (no renders, though) taking out a grassy field in the Italian Market area. http://www.philarising.com/permits-p...EpYlHcNQci-kPU

[Capsule F]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I don't know what CFC is. Since this thread is actually supposed to be about development, here is a nice little one (no renders, though) taking out a grassy field in the Italian Market area. http://www.philarising.com/permits-p...EpYlHcNQci-kPU

I see nothing wrong with lamenting the trashy stores on Chestnut. I don't think that makes anyone pretentious.

I can acknowledge their right to be there while still lamenting them. Retail as a whole is in a very precarious place. I am somewhat worried about the future of retail climates in cities. Best case scenario is a reversion back to mom and pop, because retail landlords won't have any high paying anchors remaining.

I feel like its going to get a lot worse before it gets better (brick & mortar retail), for all parts of the country.

[RonnieStevens]

Signs and posters for development and a Concrete Contractor (I think) are up around the 2100 Hamilton Condo project. The 10 story luxury proposal that is behind the Van Gogh museum.