Borders

[R@ptor]

Originally Posted by Yankee

Like, if a business is in two countries which country's laws do they follow when it comes to taxes, payroll, anything really...?

At least in Europe it's the main entrance of the building that counts when it comes to taxes. So even if 80% of a building is located in Belgium, but the entrance is in the Netherlands, the residents pay taxes in the Netherlands.

It's a little more complicated with some laws. I remember an example (I think also from the Dutch-Belgian border) where the guests of a restaurants had to move to the Dutch side of the restaurant after 1 or 2 a.m., because restaurants in Belgium had to close an hour earlier than those in the Netherlands.

[jodelli]

Originally Posted by vid

Until a couple years ago, getting into the US was as easy as showing a birth certificate and drivers license. Now it is like trying to get into China. The borders here are almost entirely water, people have on many occasions accidentally gone into the other country without realizing it just by crossing what they thought was a normal river or lake. Now there are unmanned flying drones patrolling it so I guess you have to be more careful now.

Pretty much the same deal here that Vid describes. The 'longest undefended border in the world' no longer is.

Here are some pictures I took over the last few years.

From my balcony in east Windsor, Ontario, Canada; Belle Isle and part of the east side of Detroit. The border is in the river about 600 metres away.



A couple of Januarys ago:


Ambassador Bridge:




From near Detroit's Hart Plaza:


Detroit Windsor Tunnel:
Windsor terminus:


In the middle:


Randolph on the Detroit side:

(Picture the tunnel exit to your left. I'm not posting pics of the customs booths, not being crazy and all)

Originally Posted by mongoXZ

I live near this area.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any other border areas in the world besides the US/Mexico border (particularly San Diego-Tijuana) where the differences in the standard of living are practically on opposite ends of the spectrum as this picture exemplifies.

On the US side (bottom) you have the large shopping center with parking lots galore. Just next to it is your typical California cookie cutter suburban neighborhood. Less than 100 yards across the rusty steel curtain lies a crowded, third worldish hell hole.

Any other places similar in that fashion?

Originally Posted by emathias

Detroit and Windsor?

Guess which is which?




But seriously, folks...

Detroit from the bridge:

Scroll>>>>



The Canadian side at Windsor:





Vernor & Clark, SW Detroit:


Sandwich & Mill, roughly opposite in SW Windsor:


One for the road:

[salaverryo]

Originally Posted by R@ptor

As for borders with huge differences in standards of living...

Spain - Morocco

Spain & Morocco don't share a land border. There is a body of water (the Mediterranean Sea) between the two countries.

[SHiRO]

Originally Posted by salaverryo

Spain & Morocco don't share a land border. There is a body of water (the Mediterranean Sea) between the two countries.

Actually they do...

[R@ptor]

Originally Posted by salaverryo

Spain & Morocco don't share a land border. There is a body of water (the Mediterranean Sea) between the two countries.

Ever heard of Ceuta and Melilla???

[mwadswor]

Originally Posted by R@ptor

Not at all, they just check if you have a visa and then stamp it...that's it. And getting a Chinese visa is really easy as well. Just go to your neareast Chinese embassy, fill out a form, pay the fee and include 2 passport photos, then come back 4 hours later and pick up your passport with the visa. No questions or anything like that.

I was denied a visa when I tried to get into China. I went to the embassy in Bangkok wanting to fly to Ghuangzhou, but was denied. Others in my group got denied when they tried to get in from Tokyo and Hong Kong. It was probably just been the timing though. We were there in June and July 2008 and were told that China had stopped issuing visas for the summer because of the olympics (none of us were smart enough to apply too far in advance or from the US).

Originally Posted by R@ptor

I've been to 44 countries (46 if you include Hong Kong and Macau which also have border controls) so far and in only 3 of them (USA, Canada, Singapore) was I ever asked anything at the border (reason for visit, intended length of stay,etc.), the US being the worst by far. In all other countries (including dictatorships, communist countries,etc) they simply stamped my passport and wished me a nice trip, no matter if in Asia, Africa or Australia.
Well, of course those are my experiences with a German passport...I suppose you'll get harassed a bit more if you show up with a Yemen passport.

I've only been to 8 countries (US passport), but I've been asked about reason for visit, length of stay, adress I was staying at, etc. every single time. Not only was I asked by a border agent, but most of the time I had to fill out a form with the information too, so it wasn't just the agent harassing me.

Originally Posted by R@ptor

Thailand - Cambodia

Thailand - Cambodia was by far the most problematic border I've ever crossed. Mostly because of the sheer, blatant corruption. The Thai side was fine. When I tried getting a day pass into Cambodia the border guard refused to give it to me and my friend for less than $30 each even though the sign over his head clearly said $20 (he just shrugged and said "old sign" when we pointed this out). We only had US$20 each because that's what we'd planned on, so he tried to get us to pay $20 and 500 baht (almost $40 total), and when we wouldn't pay he just ignored us and went to the next people in line. We finally just paid him the money and watched him openly put the $20 in the cashbox and the 500 baht in his own wallet.

Same deal on the way back out. We tried just bypassing the checkpoint becasue there are no gates, just a window on each side of the road. No one stopped us in Cambodia, but they wouldn't let us back into Thailand without an exit stamp from Cambodia. Walking back across the bridge a pair of military guys with lots of stars on their uniforms (far too many for them to have been their legitimately... our guess was that these "generals" bought them in a tourist shop) pulled us into their office and proceeded to shake us down for another 300 baht each (US$10) before giving our passport to some guy (no uniform... just some guy they pulled off the street) and sent him back to the passport window to get our exit stamps. Thankfully, he actually came back with our passports and the exit stamps, but he harrased my friend and I the whole way back across the bridge for his "fee" for being the runner... though he backed off when we saw some Thai border agents on the other side.

I've only been to 8 countries, but my friend lived in central America for 2 years and has ridden busses from Panama to Mexico and he agreed that Thailand - Cambodia was the most corrupt, pain in the butt border he'd ever crossed too. A lot of people cross that border in bus groups and don't realize that the bribes are prearranged (we had a lot of time to stand their and watch the bus drivers hand a lot of money to the border agents before the rest of their group came through), and many more people only go to the casinos, so they never technically enter Cambodia.

[mwadswor]

The bridge across the border, entering Cambodia. The tall buildings are the casinos. Gambling is ilegal in both Thailand and Cambodia, so they build these casinos on a narrow strip right along the border (not sure how the taxation works) between the border checkpoints. It's huge business to bus old Thai people (old people are the main gamblers in Thailand too ) out to the border for the day.


[img]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c4WshzEPoNs/SKWLe1MEmyI/AAAAAAAAC8M/3a4ksMm8oSg/004.JPG[img/]



The border



Cambodia. This is the main highway from Thailand to Siem Reap (Angkor Wat) to and beyond.



Immediately off the main highway.



Not really relevant to the border (except for the casinos in the background), I'm just still amazed by this truck.









Back into Thailand.



It's hard to tell because I was taking a picture of the cart (this is actually the first picture I took that day), but this is the thai side of the border. Notice the nice paved roads and the market in the background.

[R@ptor]

Originally Posted by mwadswor

I was denied a visa when I tried to get into China. I went to the embassy in Bangkok wanting to fly to Ghuangzhou, but was denied. Others in my group got denied when they tried to get in from Tokyo and Hong Kong. It was probably just been the timing though. We were there in June and July 2008 and were told that China had stopped issuing visas for the summer because of the olympics (none of us were smart enough to apply too far in advance or from the US).

As you already mentioned China had special visa policies in place during the Beijing Olympics, as well as for the 2 months before it.
But you still would have gotten one, if you had applied for it in the US. China is one of a handful of countries where it is always recommended to apply in your country of citizenship / residence. Russia for example is another one.
Visas are definitely something you should arrange before a trip, not while you are already travelling, this also applies to all 'third world countries' that offer visas on arrivals.

Originally Posted by mwadswor

I've only been to 8 countries (US passport), but I've been asked about reason for visit, length of stay, adress I was staying at, etc. every single time. Not only was I asked by a border agent, but most of the time I had to fill out a form with the information too, so it wasn't just the agent harassing me.

I was refering to the immigration officers of course, not the forms. But you've been questioned in every country you went to???? I find that hard to believe. You mentioned you've been to Thailand. I've entered Thailand 5 times so far (3xBKK, 1xDMK, 1xCNX), not a single question each time.

What were the other countries?

Originally Posted by mwadswor

Thailand - Cambodia was by far the most problematic border I've ever crossed. Mostly because of the sheer, blatant corruption. The Thai side was fine. When I tried getting a day pass into Cambodia the border guard refused to give it to me and my friend for less than $30 each even though the sign over his head clearly said $20 (he just shrugged and said "old sign" when we pointed this out). We only had US$20 each because that's what we'd planned on, so he tried to get us to pay $20 and 500 baht (almost $40 total), and when we wouldn't pay he just ignored us and went to the next people in line. We finally just paid him the money and watched him openly put the $20 in the cashbox and the 500 baht in his own wallet.

I've been to Cambodia last year and had no problem whatsoever. BUT....again, I had my visa arranged beforehand. If you show up at the border with a visa, they can't try and extort money from you.

[mwadswor]

Now leaving Thailand



The border (the Mekong river). At Nong Khai, if you're walking you get stamped out of thailand, you ride a free bus across the Thai-Lao friendship bridge, and you get stamped into Laos. In contrast the mayhem at the Cambodian border, it's all very well organized and there are no pedestrians.



Thailand on the left, Laos on the right. The dark blue is the tinting at the top of the bus window, the sky doesn't actually look that cool



Entering Laos



Looking from Laos back into Thailand



Crossing back



Laos drives on the right, Thailand on the left.



Back across the bridge (those are Lao flags)



The flag with the spot is Laos. The striped flag in the background is Thailand. The yellow flag is the Thai king's flag.



Back in Thailand

[mwadswor]

Originally Posted by R@ptor

As you already mentioned China had special visa policies in place during the Beijing Olympics, as well as for the 2 months before it.
But you still would have gotten one, if you had applied for it in the US. China is one of a handful of countries where it is always recommended to apply in your country of citizenship / residence. Russia for example is another one.
Visas are definitely something you should arrange before a trip, not while you are already travelling, this also applies to all 'third world countries' that offer visas on arrivals.

Yeah, I had Thailand planned out, I just didn't think to plan my Visa runs in advance.


[QUOTE=R@ptor;4546393]I was refering to the immigration officers of course, not the forms. But you've been questioned in every country you went to???? I find that hard to believe. You mentioned you've been to Thailand. I've entered Thailand 5 times so far (3xBKK, 1xDMK, 1xCNX), not a single question each time.

What were the other countries? [quote]

US, UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Domincan Republic, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia. I guess it wasn't every single time. As I think about it, I'm not even sure if I passed through a customs checkpoint when I went from Dublin to Edinburough (connecting through Heathrow). But I definitely remember being given the "why are you here, how long are you staying" everywhere else, including flying from London to Dublin.

Originally Posted by R@ptor

I've been to Cambodia last year and had no problem whatsoever. BUT....again, I had my visa arranged beforehand. If you show up at the border with a visa, they can't try and extort money from you.

Cambodia was my most recent border crossing, except for flying back to the US. I never had any problems before, so I never thought about it before. I'll definitely be planning my trips better in the future... at least to countries with weaker national governments, although Laos was no problem and Laos' national government is just as relatively non-existant as Cambodia's.

[Fusey]

Originally Posted by kevike

What's funny is most people on this Forum would probably prefer the urban Mexican side. It may be 3rd world, but it's walkable!

Eh... Not really. Tijuana is extremely sprawled out. Even walking to the Revolución from the border is a pain in the ass.

[Trantor]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Santana do Livramento-RS, Brazil and Rivera, Uruguay

Nothing but these 2 flags separates the two nations. As easy as crossing the street. LOL

I loved living in these border towns. The people were so awesome.

left, Brazil... right, Uruguay



Santana do Livramento, Brasil

[staff]

I have never applied for a China visa in my home country (I have entered the country at least 10 times)-- have never had any problems.

Cambodia? Been there twice getting a visa at the border. No problems, no hustle.

United States (and Canada) remain most problematic (as in time consuming, weird questions, rude personel etc.) countries to enter for me.

[JManc]

you can just show up in china without a visa? they issue them at airport?

[SHiRO]

Originally Posted by staff

I have never applied for a China visa in my home country (I have entered the country at least 10 times)-- have never had any problems.

Cambodia? Been there twice getting a visa at the border. No problems, no hustle.

United States (and Canada) remain most problematic (as in time consuming, weird questions, rude personel etc.) countries to enter for me.

Go figure and we're from fellow western countries!

Never had any problems at crossing any border. Most unfriendly? Definately the US. Although I do have to say that the customs officials after being over the top hostile and strict do lighten up after awhile. The guards running around at the various airports could use a lesson in manners though. All I saw was them yelling at people (about cellphones and other shit), when simply asking would have been more effective.

[JManc]

i had an easier and faster time entering japan, the netherlands and france than i did returning to the US. driving into mexico was also a cinch but driving back to the big wal-mart however....

[sofresh808]

Last time I went through customs flying back into the US, the first agent basically had a conversation with me, at first asked where I went and the purpose of my trip and then asked where I went to college, what I studied and what I intended to do with it. It flowed very well and was fast, but afterwards I was just like damn he's good. Second agent was more typical, with awkward pauses, and the staring of the passport and me for good 10 seconds before waving me through. I kinda miss the old days at TJ, when I could show my drivers license, be asked where I was born and waved through.

[tablemtn]

The most trouble I ever had at a border post was re-entering the Dominican Republic from Haiti at the Dajabón/Ouanaminthe crossing. The Dominican border agents thought I was a drug smuggler for some reason. I was interrogated and finally told to go back to Haiti and come back the next day because the border was "closed" for the night!

I did, and got back into the DR after a thorough search of my belongings the following day.

[tayser]

Surely with the ETA that the US adopted from Australia - the questions aren't posed as much anymore?

I'm going to be doing my first US entry in Feb.

Regardless, I'm surprised some of you who have been here haven't complained about entry into Australia - EVERYONE requires a visa (except New Zealand passport holders) whether it be the ETA or a more standard Visa stuck in the your passport - we're arseholes!! lol.

Most frustrating border crossing is Singapore-Malaysia over the causeway... no problem for entry requirements for AU passport holders, just going through the pain of getting bus to border check station, going through the procedure, getting back on the bus, stuck in traffic on the causeway, then doing the border check at the other end then back on the bus.... you need to set aside an hour to get across!

And agreed - China border crossings are simple, just apply for your visa in Hong Kong (pay the cheap rate, leave your passport with the agent overnight and you get it again the next morning with nice big El Communistico Visa stuck in it).

[Rizzo]

The experience driving from Windsor, ON into Detroit, MI is interesting. If you avoid the ramps to the freeway you end up in SW Detroit with the abandoned train station looming overhead. Welcome to America. In recent years they've been working to improve this area, but they really need to fix the train depot.