CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by ★Kngkyle

I think they planned on having an underground tunnel connecting the eastern and western terminals. Probably some sort of people mover like at Tampa except underground.

The O'Hare plans include a second people mover system, unconnected to the existing one, within the security perimeter. You could go through security in one terminal then ride the train across to the other terminal to board. It would be completely underground, except for a maintenance yard north of the western terminal.

There are completely separate plans to extend the Blue Line underneath the airport to the western terminal. The western station would be OUTSIDE security. This would be extremely costly, but it would allow for a new regional transit center at the western terminal, with LRT or BRT connections to Schaumburg, BRT connections to various places in the W/NW suburbs, the STAR Line, and possibly HSR. In fact, most plans for the Midwest HSR network involve an eventual O'Hare connection, but some propose a station at the eastern terminal and some the western terminal).

[Busy Bee]

I think a HSR terminal, if built, would be better suited at the Eastern Terminal.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The O'Hare plans include a second people mover system, unconnected to the existing one, within the security perimeter. You could go through security in one terminal then ride the train across to the other terminal to board.

Presumably you're referring to a system primarily for people changing planes between W and E. Your suggestion of people entering the airport on one side and eventually boarding on the other is limited to people with no luggage to check (or claim, for arriving passengers), and no other need to line up at their airline's counter.

Originally Posted by ardecila

There are completely separate plans to extend the Blue Line underneath the airport to the western terminal. The western station would be OUTSIDE security. This would be extremely costly, but it would allow for a new regional transit center at the western terminal, with LRT or BRT connections to Schaumburg, BRT connections to various places in the W/NW suburbs, the STAR Line, and possibly HSR.

One figures, though, once you've spent a billion $ getting the Blue Line to the W side of the airport, that extending it 4-5 extra miles through warehouse-land and closer to Schaumburg, or at least Itasca, would be a no-brainer. (Another billion $ maybe, but with disproportionately huge benefit - especially since Schaumburg is a glaring gap in the Metra network.) Don't know if it's legally possible, but how cool (and inexpensive) would it be to have the Blue Line run through pristine sections of that giant forest preserve..?

[VivaLFuego]

The alternatives analysis that identified Pace BRT as the most cost-effective and highest-ridership transit option to serve the NW/I-90 corridor and connect to O'hare also looked at two Blue Line extensions (one down Thorndale then up 290 to Woodfield, the other straight out I-90) and the STAR Line (least cost-effective, lowest ridership). Of course, you know which we wound up with.

[ardecila]

The O'Hare branch is really about as long as you want a radial metro line to go, though. Visitors to Chicago might take the train from O'Hare to downtown, or locals might ride to O'Hare to avoid the cost of a taxi or the hassles of parking. But I doubt many people would ride from downtown to Schaumburg - it's just too time-consuming when you're stopping for 2 minutes every half-mile. Metra doesn't currently service the Woodfield area, but their wide suburban station spacing and relative lack of in-city stations makes them perfect for Schaumburg service.

I've mentioned this several times before, but I think the STAR Line should be made into a spur of the MD-W Line along I-90, skipping the EJ&E portion altogether. It would branch off the MD-W in Bensenville and run through the West Terminal up to I-90, then to Woodfield, with a future phase out to Prairie Stone. That way, Woodfield trains would serve O'Hare and connect to downtown. If you increase the radius of the turn at Pacific Junction and build a grade-separation of the dangerous crossing at Grand, you've got a high-speed express line from Union Station to Woodfield.

The EJ&E portion of the STAR Line is laughably misguided and would require tremendous land-use changes at each of its stations to generate a reasonable ridership. The I-90 portion at least serves existing employment and recreation centers. Of course, the towers-in-a-park nature of these centers makes them difficult to serve with a rail line, but hey, it's way better than building stations in cornfields and forest preserves. To serve the EJ&E corridor, I'd rather see 59 get an ambitious widening with limited access and bus lanes. It would be a far better solution to the problem, and it would (kinda) go where people actually live and work...

[FlashingLights]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The O'Hare branch is really about as long as you want a radial metro line to go, though. Visitors to Chicago might take the train from O'Hare to downtown, or locals might ride to O'Hare to avoid the cost of a taxi or the hassles of parking. But I doubt many people would ride from downtown to Schaumburg - it's just too time-consuming when you're stopping for 2 minutes every half-mile. Metra doesn't currently service the Woodfield area, but their wide suburban station spacing and relative lack of in-city stations makes them perfect for Schaumburg service.

The nearest Metra line MD-W to Woodfield is Schaumburg line between Irving Park, Lake Street and Elgin Ohare Expressway in a dead zone near the Flyers Stadium. The next line north is the UP-NW and gets off in Palatine it's not even close to Woodfield. How would you propose Metra stop at Woodfield?

I do agree anyone commuting to work in the city would never want to take a line from Woodfield to Chicago. There is a way to take the pace bus at Woodfield and transfer off to CTA busses but it's to complicated and time consuming. Only shoppers traveling in to shop at Woodfield from the northern outskirt areas of the city use the pace line. I still think there should be some method to get to Woodfield, besides the pace bus system. I still think the biggest mall in the Chicago area should have a more direct link to downtown. It could be mutually beneficial to both economies. People might not use the line to commute to work but the tourism dollars could increase if there was a line to Woodfield. Overall it is still a huge necessity. Extending it from Ohare would not be a bad idea, grabbing even more tourism dollars from travelers. I'm not sure of the specific details of the previous proposals since I have never been a transportation follower since I live in the suburbs. I do know all metra lines well though. Maybe someone can enlighten me on the proposal and STAR line.

[ardecila]

This is the STAR Line as currently planned. My idea... Imagine just the top section, but extended a little bit at the east end to connect to the MD-W Line (the orange line just below the airplane icon). It would be a spur to the MD-W that serves Rolling Meadows, Woodfield, and Hoffman Estates.

[jpIllInoIs]

^You make a good point Ardecila. I like the Bensenville-OHare-Woodfield-Prairie Stone spur idea.

[ardecila]

Yeah... just run them as sleek DMUs, with CTA-style mezzanine stations and no grade crossings. As I said earlier, you'd have to make some modifications to the MD-W main line to accommodate the increased frequent trains, and there'd be a downtown capacity issue, since both sides of Union Station are more or less maxed out. I guess they could go to Ogilvie instead.

Schaumburg seems eager to jump on the TOD bandwagon, if they had any T to O the D around. They're willing to raze a massive auto-oriented apartment community to be replaced by a huge transit village.

[VivaLFuego]

Various STAR Line concepts have it running to O'Hare Transfer on the NCS, meaning running it downtown is a cinch from a trackage standpoint (as ardec says, there would probably be necessary signal upgrades to deal with the added frequency), and another concept has it terminating at Rosemont Blue Line for a CTA connection.

Either way, a serious express bus system terminating at Rosemont and/or Cumberland and using partially grade-separated express bus lanes and distributing straight to major traffic generators in the corridor would be the far more cost-effective solution than the billions a new rail line would eat up.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Either way, a serious express bus system terminating at Rosemont and/or Cumberland and using partially grade-separated express bus lanes and distributing straight to major traffic generators in the corridor would be the far more cost-effective solution than the billions a new rail line would eat up.

Obviously... but then the politicians wouldn't have as much to brag about, or as many jobs to award.

I've seen the bus lanes on 290 in Houston... cool stuff. Pace's TIGER request is for a similar system along the Tri-State, IIRC...

[spyguy]

Some of the houses in Bensenville are starting to come down...

[jpIllInoIs]

It is amusing to note the responses of the community leaders. After a decade of obstructing all things regarding O'Hare expansion, they are now lining up to get the project built with in their boundaries and have entrance/exit ramps.

IDOT passes on Bensenville for western bypass around O'Hare

By Marni Pyke | Daily Herald StaffContact writer
Published: 12/9/2009

Illinois Department of Transportation engineers Wednesday finalized the location of a proposed western bypass around O'Hare linking I-90 and I-294 to a completed Elgin O'Hare Expressway.

IDOT will build the south leg of the bypass connecting to I-294 east of the Union Pacific Railway tracks in Franklin Park. Designs call for an elevated highway. The decision relieved Bensenville leaders and residents who opposed the state's alternative of locating the highway in their town west of County Line Road.

"This is a fantastic outcome for Bensenville," Village President Frank Soto said. "There's been a lot of uncertainty."

The north leg of the bypass will be constructed mainly on the west side of O'Hare and then head north to connect with I-90 at the Des Plaines oasis.

Input from communities - particularly Franklin Park, whose leaders backed locating the highway in their town - was crucial, IDOT Bureau Chief of Programming Pete Harmet said.
....
IDOT dropped an option to build the north leg of the bypass along a widened York/Elmhurst Road, partly through Bensenville.

Central to the project is finally extending the Elgin O'Hare Expressway east along Thorndale Avenue from its terminus in Itasca to the airport, where a western terminal is proposed.
.......
Johnson led a fight against one bypass proposal widening Route 83 through the town's business park; IDOT ultimately rejected it. Now, "this is a big day for Elk Grove Village," he said. "Now we know where it's definitely going - everyone is on the same page."

Other officials at an IDOT meeting said the project will aid commercial development in their towns and reduce congestion.

"We need as much economic development as possible," said Elmhurst Mayor Pete DiCianni, adding the city will seek to get interchanges at Grand Avenue.

"It's a good project for a variety of reasons," DuPage County Director of Transportation and Operations John Kos said. He praised a transit component of the plan creating a bus rapid transit or rail system along the Elgin O'Hare Expressway from the airport to Hanover Park. The system would include stops at the proposed western terminal, Lively Boulevard, Arlington Heights Road, Rohlwing Road, Roselle Road, the Schaumburg Metra station and Gary Avenue.

Hanover Park Mayor Rod Craig supported the proposal in general but noted he wanted transit to extend to County Line Road instead of ending at Gary, which would create unwanted traffic in nearby neighborhoods.
....
The proposal also calls for 24 miles of regional and local trails.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=342862

[ardecila]

The transit line is ending at Gary because there's a dedicated offramp there that runs straight to the Schaumburg Metra station, creating an opportunity for a transfer facility. If the transit line stayed on the mainline of the Elgin-O'Hare to go to County Line, then it wouldn't be able to connect to the Metra station, which is 1/2 mile south of the expressway.

I guess it could connect at Hanover Park instead of Schaumburg, but Schaumburg has more parking, and a baseball stadium that people might want to travel to.

The expansion plans are ambitious, but I really don't know why IDOT is only focusing on the east end, around O'Hare. Long-term plans call for a short westward extension as well, around Ontarioville to connect with Lake/US-20. Presumably, US-20 would then be made limited-access into Elgin, where it already IS limited-access. IDOT should just get the westward extension done at the same time, instead of leaving us with a road that's STILL not finished after billions of dollars spent.

[nomarandlee]

OT: Looking at the Schaumburg Metra station/ball park, it is so like Schaumburg to build a huge subdivision of cul-de-sacs surrounding the whole south side of the station. I count twenty in a .5 mile half radius.

Well, maybe the northside of the tracks still have a small prayer of turning into something remotely useful.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

OT: Looking at the Schaumburg Metra station/ball park, it is so like Schaumburg to build a huge subdivision of cul-de-sacs surrounding the whole south side of the station. I count twenty in a .5 mile half radius.

Well, maybe the northside of the tracks still have a small prayer of turning into something remotely useful.

Those areas south of the tracks are in Roselle.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs

IDOT passes on Bensenville for western bypass around O'Hare

By Marni Pyke | Daily Herald StaffContact writer
Published: 12/9/2009

Illinois Department of Transportation engineers Wednesday finalized the location of a proposed western bypass around O'Hare linking I-90 and I-294 to a completed Elgin O'Hare Expressway.

......


http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=342862

no map or link in the article...

[jpIllInoIs]

Worked for me...here it is again


http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=342862

[denizen467]

no map or link (to a map)

[ardecila]

yes, yes... excellent journalism.

detailed information can be found here:
http://elginohare-westbypass.org/Des...aspx?tabid=277

the maps/diagrams are at the bottom under "roll plots". IDOT has selected "south connection d" to allay the concerns of bensenville, and alternative 203 (which includes a full o'hare ring road instead of just the southern portion). i'm actually kinda excited about the massive interchange they'll be building where 290 crosses the elgin-o'hare, which will be 7/8ths of a full stack interchange.