Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn
Not in this case - there was no integration. They lived siloed lives in exclusively Scottish enclaves. Absolutely no mixing, per religious dictates. We're talking about 1000 years of dire Catholic dogma vs. that shiny, new, and proudly fierce Presbyterian doctrine.
And please remember ( or look up) what Cromwell did in Ireland at this time. The island was already a seething mass of resentment when the Ulster Plantation began. The Scots who came to Northern Ireland weren't even given the opportunity at integration, even if they had wanted to (which they didn't - many of them didn't want to move there in the first place but were forced to by both James I and later Cromwell).
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^ No inegration? Yeah, right... the only case over mulitple generations in human history.
I think that is completely naive and it is non-factual. Lowland Scots and English were moved 12 miles across the water to a region long inhabited by Irish Gaels... Catholics and other non-Anglicans, including Scots, for centuries.
You really think there was zero intermixing? That goes against all evidence throughout human civilization. No "other" fucking at all, for 3-4 GENERATIONS (as you claim), huh? Not to mention zero "cultural intermixing". Especially after Highland Scots started to stream in as well and readily intermixed with the native Irish... but nothing, right?
But of course, the Scots and Irish are so known for their restraint
You claimed that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn
Scotch-Irish are English. They might have some Irish DNA (like most English do), but they never were culturally Irish, never wanted to be culturally Irish, and were present in Ireland for just 3-4 generations before moving on.
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This is preposterous (for one thing, the DNA part results in all of them being pretty much exactly the same... but that's another topic) to claim that a group of people unwillingly moved there by the English, and who existed there for MULTIPLE generations with the native Irish Gaels, and who were persecuted by the English ruling class so much so that they decided to move en masse and intentionally establish themselves as Scots-Irish immigrants (along with Irish Catholic immigrants, mind you) in a city (Philadelphia) whose founder was half-Irish and open to settlers who were not Anglican (William Penn)... and then spread throughout the state naming nearly every place they settled between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh after their Irish homelands.
The historical truth is, that by the mid 18th century, the "Scots Irish" were largely considered Irish, with a significant portion Catholic. These were not the same Ulster Scots who left in the earlier part of the century. The main difference was religion; Protestant vs. Catholic... two sides of the same Irish coin... and it was a big mix of both sides by that time.
So why did all of these "Englishmen" continue to name their new settlements after their Irish homelands, rather than their supposed original English ancestral homelands? Because after 3-4 generations (as you stated), they became Irish and those English homelands were distant memories or forgotten names, whether they liked it (or admitted it) or not. This is what happens with closely-regional populations. And in light of what you mentioned earlier, this region was populated by both Scots and Gaels centuries prior, i.e., historical longevity of intermixing in the area of Ulster and SW Scotland.