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View Poll Results: Which city will reach 1 million first?
Winnipeg 89 76.72%
Québec 27 23.28%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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  #361  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2024, 6:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
I think I've heard of that. It's near Saint-Louis-du-LMFAO! isn't it?


If I recall correctly, I believe a "ha-ha" is something like a portage.
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  #362  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2024, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


If I recall correctly, I believe a "ha-ha" is something like a portage.
Ha ha you are smart and curious man.
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  #363  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2024, 6:28 PM
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The Commission de toponymie du Québec asserts that the parish's name refers to nearby Lake Témiscouata, the sense of haha here being an archaic French word for an impasse; see Ha-ha. The Louis may refer to Louis Marquis, one of the first colonists of the region, or Louis-Antoine Proulx, vicar of Rivière-du-Loup, or perhaps the abbot Louis-Nicolas Bernier. Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! is the only town in the world with two exclamation points in its name, and shares the distinction of having an exclamation point in its name with Westward Ho!, a village in Devon, in south-west England (Wikipedia)

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  #364  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2024, 6:29 PM
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Oh interesting! I always assumed they were just being whimsical.
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  #365  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2024, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Oh interesting! I always assumed they were just being whimsical.
I think Moncton's explanation has Indigenous origins.

Other theories:

- A ha-ha in old French is a kind of moat.

- Early explorers would have exclaimed "ha ha!" at the beauty of Lake Témiscouata when they first saw it.
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  #366  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2024, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
The Commission de toponymie du Québec asserts that the parish's name refers to nearby Lake Témiscouata, the sense of haha here being an archaic French word for an impasse; see Ha-ha.
Yes, an obstruction (or impasse) - one you had to portage around.

This was actually an ancient portage route between the upper Saint John River valley at Edmundston and the St. Lawrence River in pre colonial times. The watershed was south of Lake Temiscouata where St. Louis-du-Ha! Ha! was founded.

I really like Lake Temiscouata - very scenic.
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  #367  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2024, 6:36 PM
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We drove that highway hundreds of times when I was a kid, and this town was always a favourite toponym of myself and my siblings. Good for lots of jokes of course.

Imagine my excitement when they turned that segment of two-lane road into an autoroute and they installed these huge signs:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6731...8192?entry=ttu
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  #368  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 3:41 PM
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Below are maps of buildings that are at least 12 floors or 35m tall within the SSP database for these two cities, as well Hamilton (third in the race to hit 1,000,000). I personally find it interesting to compare/contrast. (Grey = built, blue = proposed, green = under construction, yellow = on-hold)

Winnipeg: - Map Link


Quebec: - Map Link


Hamilton: - Map Link
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  #369  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 1:54 PM
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Based on this, I think Winnipeg will reach the million first, by the end of the decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
So some crude estimates for current CMA population bouncing off of the StatsCan population clock. Please note, crude.

Toronto: 7.0 million (above)
Montreal: 4.6 million (above)
Vancouver: 3.1 million (below)
Calgary: 1.8 million (below)
Ottawa: 1.6 million (above)
Edmonton: 1.6 million (above)
Winnipeg: 940,000 (above)
Quebec City: 900,000 (above)

Hamilton: 850,000 (above)
Kitchener: 700,000 (above)
London: 630,000 (above)
Halifax: 540,000 (below)
Saint Catharines-Niagara: 490,000 (above)
Windsor: 480,000 (above)
Victoria: 440,000 (above)
Saskatoon: 370,000 (below)
Regina: 280,000 (above)
Kelowna: 250,000 (above)
St. John's: 240,000 (below)
Moncton: 190,000 (below)
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  #370  
Old Posted Today, 4:34 PM
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To add to this discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laceoflight View Post
The last population estimates from July 1, 2023 are interesting to look at, and I have been pleased to read all of this thead. What is even more interesting, though, is that after the (vast and expensive) consultation that were held a few years before last census (2021), which I have taken part of, Statistics Canada have decided to maintain its census metropolitan area delineation method, rather than update to a method that is becoming standard worldwide, the Functional Urban Areas (developed in collaboration with OECD and EU).

Basically, this method is simple : there are urban centres or "cities" which are defined as continuous built-up spaces. All the municipalities where most of the population live in that continuous built-up space are considered part of the "city" (in other words, the urban core). There are thresholds for size, which are based on the number of jobs, density and population of said cores. For example, the core of a functional urban area of greater importance consists of a conurbation of at least 50k population, 10k jobs and 1500ppl/sqkm. There are many sources online where you can find the detail for this method. There is then a threshold of 15% commuting between "cities". It a city sends more than 15% of its working population to another city, it is considered as a secondary "urban core" of this second city. You understand that there is no such thing as Hamilton, Oshawa, Abbotsford, Valleyfield, etc. with this method. Which is the interesting part.

The delineation method that is used in Canada for CMAs is pretty much unique worldwide, which limits comparisons when it comes to urban matters (public health, urban growth, urban sprawl, etc.) I am a researcher attached to the Urban development chair at UdeM. For most of our analysis, we use, for Canada, the data for Functional Urban Areas (Aires d'attraction des villes en français). We can therefore do some comparisons with european cities, for example. We work closely with Statistics Canada : they provide us with the granular data (ex.: census blocks, attributes, etc., which are all public by the way), and mostly, the number of jobs by census block.

Anyway, as we keep track of this data, I thought I'd share it with you, in order to add another perspective when it comes to comparing urban areas in Canada. I will be glad to answer your questions, even though demographics is not my field of study - I work in environmental geography, landscape and cultural heritage. I may have to ask colleagues before being able to come back to you.


So, according to the July 1st 2023 estimates that were released recently, Canada's main Functional Urban Areas are :

Position. Population. Name

Code:
1.   8 854 488   Toronto, ON
2.   4 925 560   Montréal, QC
3.   3 342 027   Vancouver, BC
4.   1 787 183   Calgary, AB
5.   1 745 823   Ottawa / Gatineau, ON/QC
6.   1 597 116   Edmonton, AB
7.   1 005 982   Québec, QC
8.     998 548   Winnipeg, MB
9.     683 300   Kitchener / Cambridge / Waterloo, ON
10.    682 528   London, ON
11.    552 728   Halifax, NS
12.    453 695   Victoria, BC
13.    441 736   St. Catharines / Niagara Falls, ON
14.    434 729   Windsor, ON
15.    371 640   Saskatoon, SK
16.    291 198   Sherbrooke, QC
17.    290 871   Regina, SK
18.    253 027   St. John's, NL
19.    246 789   Kelowna, BC
20.    240 197   Moncton, NB
21.    235 600   Kingston, ON
22.    214 141   Guelph, ON
23.    213 244   Trois-Rivières, QC
24.    204 585   Red Deer, AB
25.    192 723   Sudbury, ON
26.    182 072   Saguenay, QC
27.    171 685   Belleville / Trenton, ON
28.    154 156   Lethbridge, AB
29.    152 330   Fredericton, NB
30.    151 501   Peterborough, ON
31.    149 516   Nanaimo, BC
32.    146 943   Saint John, NB
33.    132 733   Kamloops, BC
34.    131 212   Thunder Bay, ON
35.    129 190   Drummondville, QC
36.    122 182   Granby, QC
37.    116 452   Sarnia, ON
38.    113 755   Charlottetown, PE
39.    113 238   Chatham-Kent, ON
40.    111 033   Sydney (Cape Breton), NS
41.    104 789   Joliette, QC
42.    101 444   North Bay, ON
43.    100 484   Saint-Hyacinthe, QC
44.    100 006   Grande Prairie, AB
A few remarks :
  • There is a problem with the inconsistency of census subdivisions, espacially in BC and AB, where immense municipal districts create municipal enclaves within them. The urban areas in these 2 provinces, especially Alberta, tend to grow add no municipality for a few censuses, and then add like 10 or 15 in one census, because the sum of commuting worker for a whole municipal district and all of its enclaves combined reaches 15%. The same problem is experienced with the official Statistics Canada method.
  • The Toronto FUA (functional urban area) comprises Hamilton, Oshawa, Barrie, Milton and Brantford, which are all secondary cores of category A. The statiscal "city" of Brantford sends 15,33% of its working population to Toronto and adjacent municipalities.
  • In Vancouver, Abbotsford (A), Mission (C) and Chilliwack (B) are all considered as secondary cores.
  • For Montreal, Saint-Jérôme (A), Salaberry-de-Valleyfield (B) and Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu (B) are also considered as secondary cores. Saint-Hyacinthe, Sorel and Joliette are not close to become secondary cores.
  • Outside of the larger 3 agglomerations, we note that Shawinigan, QC is only at 1,01% of commuting to becoming a secondary core to Trois-Rivières. We consider them separate for now. It is also interesting that Louiseville, a C-category "city", is now at 13.7% commuting to Trois-Rivières. But outside of the suburban world, these stats tend to take time to increase, and honestly, we would prefer not to see it happen.
  • Sainte-Marie, QC sends 13.21% of its working force to Québec, QC. Seeing the growth of this rate in the last 2 censuses, the "city" should join QC in 5 or 10 years.
  • Airdrie, AB, is a secondary core to Calgary (46% of commuting)
  • Guelph, ON, is closer to be added to the FUA of Toronto (8,7% of commuting) than it is to join KCW (4,0% of commuting). Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo is not even close to join Toronto either (3.64% of commuting); it is still fairly independent.
  • Vernon, BC and Kelowna are not close to merge.
  • Cobourg, ON will not likely be integrated soon to Toronto, but it is getting closer (11% commuting). So is Midland (11% also). Brighton could eventually be integrated to Belleville-Trenton, but is not close enough for now (10.5%).
  • Alma, QC could eventually join Saguenay, but it will take some time (understand : decades) (11% commuting). If Sorel grows more, it could also eventually be added to Montreal, but recent trends suggest otherwise (10%). Same goes for Coaticook to Sherbrooke (10.3%), and Cowansville to Granby (10%).
  • Shediac is already integrated into the Moncton FUA (44% commuting for the combined town and parish).

I hope it was informative. Don't forget : these are all just stats, and they mostly are useful to compare apples to apples. This is not a popularity contest or an indicator of greatness.
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  #371  
Old Posted Today, 5:52 PM
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I'm very confused. Which are the most recent Stats Can numbers?
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  #372  
Old Posted Today, 6:18 PM
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davidivivid is adding fuel to the fire by presenting laceoflight's Functional Urban Area (FUA) stats.

By this metric, QC wins!!! They are already over a million.

At least there is still a Winnipeg. Hamilton has disappeared into the Greater Toronto Googolplex.
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  #373  
Old Posted Today, 6:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


davidivivid is adding fuel to the fire by presenting laceoflight's Functional Urban Area (FUA) stats.

By this metric, QC wins!!! They are already over a million.

At least there is still a Winnipeg. Hamilton has disappeared into the Greater Toronto Googolplex.
It's only a theoretical alternative though (poor QC ), so the 'race' is still on with Winnipeg in the lead!
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  #374  
Old Posted Today, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


davidivivid is adding fuel to the fire by presenting laceoflight's Functional Urban Area (FUA) stats.

By this metric, QC wins!!! They are already over a million.

At least there is still a Winnipeg. Hamilton has disappeared into the Greater Toronto Googolplex.
Thanks for the clarification. Even after reading, I still thought these were official Stats Can figures.
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  #375  
Old Posted Today, 6:39 PM
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Quebec or Winnipeg first to reach 1 million? Impossible to tell and I mean COMPLETELY impossible.

Our national demographic growth has absolutely nothing to do with reason based forecasts and everything to do with politics. Winnipeg is growing faster due to our obscene immigration rates but what if we get a gov't that shrinks that number by 90%? Winnipeg would experience exceptional low growth and Quebec also but to far less an extent as more of it's growth is intra-provincial with economic migrants from Montreal.
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  #376  
Old Posted Today, 7:11 PM
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^ MB has its own Provincial nominee program for immigrants which keeps Winnipeg growing at a decent clip (10 to 15k per year) regardless of what the Feds are doing.
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  #377  
Old Posted Today, 7:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Thanks for the clarification. Even after reading, I still thought these were official Stats Can figures.
They are based on official numbers. The divisions are just added up in different ways (like ignoring the "CMA's can't be combined" rule even when 2 CMAs are basically joined at the hip economically), and it looks like in that case QC has cracked 7 digits; probably because it has more communities in its orbit (especially along the river) than Winnipeg does. Still, Winnipeg is basically within a rounding error of 7 digits as well, so it's still a respectable race and we'll probably be debating "Canada's #7 city" between them long after they've both passed the million mark.

Especially since 2 of the 3 next closest cities may end up swallowed by Toronto before they crack 1M, and the 3rd (Halifax) is barely over halfway there. (And the other two are only around 700k, so they have a ways to go yet regardless)
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  #378  
Old Posted Today, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justanothermember View Post
It's only a theoretical alternative though (poor QC ), so the 'race' is still on with Winnipeg in the lead!
Hopefully "acceptance speeches" for the award are being written if not already in draft, to ease the approvals process.
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  #379  
Old Posted Today, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeolas View Post
Especially since 2 of the 3 next closest cities may end up swallowed by Toronto before they crack 1M, and the 3rd (Halifax) is barely over halfway there. (And the other two are only around 700k, so they have a ways to go yet regardless)
I wonder how many outlying exurban and small town areas tied to Halifax get included under this FUA model. Probably not a lot since it's similar to the CMA. If the city keeps growing then other outlying areas could be added, although maybe these days working from home affects the commute totals (does that model still make sense?).

Towns like Truro, Windsor, and Bridgewater are heavily in Halifax's orbit. Those areas have around 100,000-200,000 people in them, and when you add them to Halifax you get the core economic region of the province where a majority live. It's sort of the "Lower Mainland" or "Golden Horseshoe" of NS, with Truro being like Abbotsford. This larger area isn't really that far off from 1 million people at current growth rates. It would have to grow by 50% or so.
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