HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Urban, Urban Design & Heritage Issues


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #101  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2021, 2:30 PM
Harley613's Avatar
Harley613 Harley613 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Aylmer, QC
Posts: 6,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by otskyline View Post
does it need to do this in central urban area of the capital? I agree there is some value in farm experiments, i just don't understand why this can't be done on the outskirts (casselman for example).

I totally understand the nay-sayers of the farm. It is a big open space in the city and vastly underutilized. I don't think any of them are saying build big box stores and sfh all over it.

In my opinion, i'd like to see a hybrid version. Take half of the space, and turn it into an actual city gem, park space, sports fields, kids playground, flower & vegetable garden, etc.. Then other half could absorb demand and housing for the next several years by building a dense, mixed-use neighbourhood. It's not going to be filled up in 2-3 years, it will grow organically and absorb demand for potentially the 10 or 15 years. During those 10-15 years, we should not be approving urban boundary expansions or costly new suburbs like tewin. We already have services, transit, infrastructure build in this part of town to support the growth too.
↑this↑
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #102  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2021, 3:19 PM
CityTech CityTech is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
The Experimental Farm does valuable research, especially today with genetically modified plants. The government has a duty to test/certify these new hybrids and the Farm’s relative isolation is great for minimizing contamination to and from adjacent farmland. It’s a research facility that advances technology that feeds people, and not just “greenspace”. The fact that Ottawans can enjoy it is a bonus.
Most of this research actually takes places indoors, with the experimental crops grown hydroponically in the basements of the lab buildings along Carling. Outdoor growing is never isolated. All it takes is one passing bird to eat a seed and you've introduced experimental genes into the wild.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #103  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2021, 3:36 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
I still haven't heard a good reason why it's so important to bulldoze the Farm when we already have decades worth of space within the Greenbelt, near transit (which is not the case for the Farm other than the new Civic lands) that's slowly developing or not in the cards for redevelopment anytime soon.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #104  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2021, 6:04 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 12,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
Most of this research actually takes places indoors, with the experimental crops grown hydroponically in the basements of the lab buildings along Carling. Outdoor growing is never isolated. All it takes is one passing bird to eat a seed and you've introduced experimental genes into the wild.
I think it's more the other way around. They require isolation to prevent seed from similar crops from being brought into, and contaminating, the test fields. Also, long-term outdoor studies require a continuity of environmental parameters, including the soil they are growing in. You can't simply relocate a long-term planting study to another field. Some of the scientific data would become invalidated.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #105  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2021, 6:21 PM
Dzingle Bells Dzingle Bells is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 158
This thread is something I have been thinking about a lot lately and I'm glad this discussion has started. Very interesting to hear passionate opinions from both sides.

Another thing that needs to be considered when talking about the farm is that on its north edge there is 4 stops for a proposed LRT line and on its south edge there is 5 stops for a proposed BRT line. With the city's focus on transit oriented development, this would seem to be the perfect spot for new density.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #106  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2021, 9:05 AM
VANRIDERFAN's Avatar
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Regina
Posts: 5,169
Those of you who want to bulldoze the farm.....

Its a great place to wander, see how a farm actually works. The staff who are in the fields will talk to you about what they are doing if you ask. Since I was a former farmer, I've talked to them several times as I strolled through the fields.

You actually have access to pretty much every part of the park, just don't be an asshole and trample crops.

It would be an absolute shame if the CEF disappeared, as other said, there are many many other locations in the city that needs to be developed before the CEF is touched.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #107  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2021, 9:51 PM
mykl mykl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 472
I'm definitely pro farm.

This entire community seems to be focused on making sure we look exactly like every other city. Every 6 months someone wants us to build a Ferris wheel for some reason. Why can't anyone embrace this absolute gem that we have? The farm is quirky and makes Ottawa special. Lets start embracing our differences instead of being like everyone else. Hell, we should be promoting this place even more to draw tourism to a unique, working, urban farm.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #108  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 2:47 PM
On Edge On Edge is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 153
There are plenty of working urban farms within the city boundaries and plenty of land to make one. Absolutely no need to waste prime inner urban space on open fields. Ottawa is polluted with empty space which which pushes everything far apart and leaves us all driving pickups and SUVs on parkways past windswept voids.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #109  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 3:03 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by On Edge View Post
There are plenty of working urban farms within the city boundaries and plenty of land to make one. Absolutely no need to waste prime inner urban space on open fields. Ottawa is polluted with empty space which which pushes everything far apart and leaves us all driving pickups and SUVs on parkways past windswept voids.
But why develop the Farm over Tunney's, or Hurdman, or LeBreton or any other under-utilized site. The Farm at least has a purpose, the others don't.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #110  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 3:22 PM
GeoNerd GeoNerd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ottawa, ON.
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by On Edge View Post
There are plenty of working urban farms within the city boundaries and plenty of land to make one. Absolutely no need to waste prime inner urban space on open fields. Ottawa is polluted with empty space which which pushes everything far apart and leaves us all driving pickups and SUVs on parkways past windswept voids.
Exactly, so develop some of those other "windswept voids". CEF is a treasure, and if anything it should be turned into a park, not tract housing and RLA towers.

I like how you make it sound like suburbanites are forced to drive huge pickup/SUV planet killers. The thought of taking transit or having a small, efficient, commuter car is lost on most outside the greenbelt.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #111  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 3:23 PM
Kitchissippi's Avatar
Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is online now
Busy Beaver
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by On Edge View Post
There are plenty of working urban farms within the city boundaries and plenty of land to make one. Absolutely no need to waste prime inner urban space on open fields. Ottawa is polluted with empty space which which pushes everything far apart and leaves us all driving pickups and SUVs on parkways past windswept voids.
LOL, what a weird misuse of a word. This land was all green before it was polluted with buildings. Pollution is an introduced element, you can't pollute something with itself. Kind of reminds me of a certain someone who accuses others of his misdeeds, aka #stopthesteal
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #112  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 4:02 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
LOL, what a weird misuse of a word. This land was all green before it was polluted with buildings. Pollution is an introduced element, you can't pollute something with itself. Kind of reminds me of a certain someone who accuses others of his misdeeds, aka #stopthesteal
Prediction: The corridors along Baseline between POW and Fisher including 500m of the east and west corners, extending north, will be fully developed into high density housing within 50 years. Also everything between Fisher and Merivale will be turned into some sort of towers in the park.

The hospital site at the north-east corner as well.

Science will kind of continue at Neatby, but most departments will be reorganized and consolidated there, leaving most of the heritage area empty (the nice 100+ year old greenhouses surrounding the showy tropical greenhouse are all empty and rotting already).

It'll be up to the government to invest in and expand the museum to turn it into something worthwhile, else it will just slowly whither on the vine. Probably justify funding the museum village by selling the perimeter land and turning the profits. Its hard to justify to Treasury these days the cost per sq.ft. to house public servants in a FHBRO listed house. Just wait for the next con gov't.

Don't get me wrong, I think the whole area is beautiful, and I also love wandering around. HOWEVER the wandering is limited to the ornamental gardens around the big red barn, the arbouretum, and cycling across the farm. Hence why I only really care about the 'core'.

I wonder if all the office spaces surrounding the Tennis Club can be turned into an urban residential oasis for rich people?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #113  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 5:35 PM
Kitchissippi's Avatar
Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is online now
Busy Beaver
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,364
In 50 years, the global median age will be pushing towards 40, Canada's will probably be closer to age 50. As the majority of the population goes past child bearing age, growth rate will start to decline.

Add to this the fact that living standards are improving rapidly in the developing world, making immigration to Canada less attractive. This is a reality Canada needs to face, and makes it more imperative that we equip ourselves towards a sustainable future.

So who knows, Ottawa might start to shrink in 50 years. Maybe things like this in Detroit is actually the future: https://www.miufi.org/about
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #114  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 6:21 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 15,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
In 50 years, the global median age will be pushing towards 40, Canada's will probably be closer to age 50. As the majority of the population goes past child bearing age, growth rate will start to decline.

Add to this the fact that living standards are improving rapidly in the developing world, making immigration to Canada less attractive. This is a reality Canada needs to face, and makes it more imperative that we equip ourselves towards a sustainable future.

So who knows, Ottawa might start to shrink in 50 years. Maybe things like this in Detroit is actually the future: https://www.miufi.org/about
Yeah, you get some wacky population predictions on SSP.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #115  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 10:15 PM
On Edge On Edge is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 153
Not to harp too much on it but to me the vast emptiness of the farm fields is a symbol of Ottawa. This capital of a G7 nation is a huge patchwork of weather beaten emptiness with scattered low density inhabited zones with everybody driving long distances to everything past long chunks of vacant land.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #116  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 11:07 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by On Edge View Post
Not to harp too much on it but to me the vast emptiness of the farm fields is a symbol of Ottawa. This capital of a G7 nation is a huge patchwork of weather beaten emptiness with scattered low density inhabited zones with everybody driving long distances to everything past long chunks of vacant land.
Visitors positive reactions to Ottawa often is about how green the city is. I am not sure why paving over everything is a good idea. Let's focus on unplanned vacant land. There is plenty of that, rather than attacking our civic assets.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #117  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 3:59 AM
VANRIDERFAN's Avatar
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Regina
Posts: 5,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Visitors positive reactions to Ottawa often is about how green the city is. I am not sure why paving over everything is a good idea. Let's focus on unplanned vacant land. There is plenty of that, rather than attacking our civic assets.
On Edge sounds like he's a member of Ottawa's City Council.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #118  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 5:08 PM
RideauRat RideauRat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Why are so many of you dead-set in redeveloping the Experimental Farm? There's plenty of space available for redevelopment in the central city as is. As some have said, we have countless parking lots, but also LeBreton, Tunney's, Hurdman, Confederation Heights, the National Research Council... At least the Farm is being used as... farm land. The rest is just parking and empty space.

We must also be aware that whatever we would want to see at the Central Experimental Farm if it ever was considered for redevelopment, is not the same as what we'll see around most of the expansion lands (Tewin may be different). Most will be single family houses and townhomes. Is that what we want for the CEF?

Many were up in arms when a hospital was proposed for part of the Farm. If we can't get a hospital, does anyone think we can convince enough pf the population that housing is a better use?

As silvergate pointed out, the importance of urban farming will only increase as time goes on. Instead of building over our farms, we should look at ways to make them more productive as farm land, maybe the addition of more greenhouses to grow things that may be atypical in Canada. We can't continue to depend on other countries.
I agree with you... Personally I live and play in the experimental farm allot. I have mixed feelings about it. but I think the true devastation in our city is LeBreton, Tunney's, Hurdman, Confederation Heights, the National Research Council... and I add Lincoln feilds, carling, merivale/baseline (A LEGIT 5 MIN WALK from the farm)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #119  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2023, 12:38 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Cross-post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawacurious View Post
Denley: Let's be bold and turn the Central Experimental Farm into a boon for all of Ottawa
Ottawa's Central Experimental Farm is bigger than New York’s Central Park, but offers only a tiny fraction of that famous park’s public value.

Author of the article:Randall Denley
Published Aug 15, 2023 • Last Updated 17 hours ago • 3 minute read

Some neighbours clearly don’t like the size, location or design of the project, but it’s just so hard to be against housing these days, especially when a proposal conforms to the city’s Official Plan.

But what about this? Federal soil scientists say the shadows will reduce daylight enough to affect their work on part of the farm. That has led to speculation that other potential developments along Carling Avenue could eventually limit the farm’s utility as a research site, threatening its future.

Ah, the famous soil science card. It was enough to stop the new Civic Hospital campus from being built on prime Experimental Farm land, but it looks like it won’t work this time.

The shady plan is almost certain to be recommended by planning committee. Then it will go to city council for approval. Even Coun. Jeff Leiper, who chairs the planning committee and represents the affected ward, has reluctantly agreed to it, pointing to provincial rules that leave the city powerless to say no.

So the dreaded shadows will descend. If that does limit the Farm’s value as a soil science site, so much the better. It’s time to turn this anachronism into something that benefits the entire city.

While popular with neighbouring dog walkers and cyclists, the farm is just a lost opportunity for the rest of us. Here we have a 960-acre open space in the central area of our city, a site that is bigger than New York’s Central Park, but offers only a tiny fraction of that famous park’s public value.

And yet, the Experimental Farm has its fans. As a city, Ottawa is remarkably undemanding when it comes to our beloved green space. We see the only two ingredients as space and greenness. The Farm certainly offers those, but remarkably little else.

The Farm’s buildings, gardens and the Arboretum are a good start to something that could be much more useful, but the rest of it? It’s no more attractive than any farmer’s field. Any value it does have lies in the novelty of being oddly situated.

Central Park, the natural heart of New York City, was created in an act of civic imagination back in 1858, 10 years before the Farm was created as an act of the federal government.

While the Farm is mostly a flat and unappealing site, that can be changed. According to the Central Park Conservancy, workers moved nearly five million cubic yards of stone, earth, and topsoil, built 36 bridges and arches, and planted 500,000 trees, shrubs, and vines. The landscapes were man-made and all built by hand.

As many will know, the 853-acre Central Park is full of attractions including a lake, a nature sanctuary, a visitor centre, playgrounds, ball fields, and a great lawn. It’s a place that draws people in by offering something more than trees, grass and park benches.

Compare that to soil science work, which no doubt has its virtues, but could potentially be conducted elsewhere. That idea is unattractive to soil scientists, but it’s difficult to argue that it’s the highest and best use for this site. Maybe in 1886, but not now.

A bold idea like creating the major urban park that Ottawa has always lacked would face obstacles. First, boldness is not our primary civic trait. Second, the federal government owns the site and has not displayed a great deal of interest in using its land to improve the country’s capital.

Still, it would be nice to see people champion a big, city-building idea. It would be a much better use of our collective energy than debating apartment towers, which will almost inevitably line Carling and shade the Farm. Rather than lament that, let’s do something better.

Randall Denley is an Ottawa political commentator and author. Contact him at randalldenley1@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #120  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2023, 1:36 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,872
Remember how certain Ottawans fought tooth and nail against a national botanical gardens calling it a Disneyland travesty.

We cannot convert the CEF to Ottawa's Central Park, if we cannot successfully launch a much smaller project on land that is not used for any crop trials and experiments.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Urban, Urban Design & Heritage Issues
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:56 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.